Bar half of the old Pig and Paper, are there any empty units in Northbrook Street?

Yes.

Quoted from blackdog

Yes.

Really? Which ones?

Some of the ones by Parkway are being refurbed, not sure if they have been let. In general, Newbury is quite healthy at present, although there will be a few empty shops after Parkway open (Barclays, Fat Face etc.).

Quoted from user23.3

Bar half of the old Pig and Paper, are there any empty units in Northbrook Street?

So why does User focus on Northbrook Street?

Because he thought none were vacant and he could score some WBC brownie points that Parkway was a major sucess.

Why does he ignore the South side of town?

Because units are vacant - which spoils his story - and like WBC they don't give a f*ck about the south side of town.

Quoted from Nobby

So why does User focus on Northbrook Street?

Possibly because we often hear the doom and gloom stories from some members on here about how Northbrook street will be empty apart from a few charity shops when Parkway opens.

The thing to keep an eye on will be how quickly the units being vacated by Parkway tenants are let again, and for how long.

I think this a great idea by User, we now have a yard stick to judge things by.

As he pointed out, at the begining of October 2011 Northbrook Street shop premises are pretty much full. The shopkeepers will be  looking forward to Christmas, getting new stock in, thinking about maybe employing extra staff, decorating the shop, etc etc. Hoping to make up, if possible, for a pretty lean year with perhaps a good Christmas season take.

Nothing can go wrong, can it?


Threep.

Quoted from user23.3

Really? Which ones?

No 3 (ex Dorothy Perkins) and the former Next shop are to let - though they do have temporary tenants at present (charity shop and an xmas bazaar).

No 41 (next to Specsavers) and No 46 (between Blockbuster and Casino Slots) are vacant.

No 70 (next to Ladbrokes) and the old Early Learning Centre are vacant (though there does seem to be activity that might indicate they have a tenants for these two).

Then there are the three at the Parkway entrance (East St).  The one to the south seems to be getting window displays advertising Parkway, The two to the north (ex-Rymans and its neighbour) seem well short of coming back into use.

Quoted from blackdog

No 3 (ex Dorothy Perkins) and the former Next shop are to let - though they do have temporary tenants at present (charity shop and an xmas bazaar).

No 41 (next to Specsavers) and No 46 (between Blockbuster and Casino Slots) are vacant.

No 70 (next to Ladbrokes) and the old Early Learning Centre are vacant (though there does seem to be activity that might indicate they have a tenants for these two).

Then there are the three at the Parkway entrance (East St).  The one to the south seems to be getting window displays advertising Parkway, The two to the north (ex-Rymans and its neighbour) seem well short of coming back into use.

ex Dorothy Perkins is a charity shop now, isn't it?

Quoted from user23.3

ex Dorothy Perkins is a charity shop now, isn't it?

Whoop, whoop. High Street heaven.

Quoted from user23.3

ex Dorothy Perkins is a charity shop now, isn't it?

Yes - as I  noted in my post.  However, as I also wrote, it is still available to let (unless the board attached to it is in error) - so I assume the charity shop is only temporary.  Which is a shame, it's got the best range of secondhand books in town.

I've not been in the Kennet Centre for a couple of weeks, what's the situation there? (minus the five food units that have never been filled)

Quoted from blackdog

Yes - as I  noted in my post.  However, as I also wrote, it is still available to let (unless the board attached to it is in error) - so I assume the charity shop is only temporary.  Which is a shame, it's got the best range of secondhand books in town.

However I was in there a couple of weeks ago and when asked, the person serving described the charity as a "family run business". The narrow focus of it looks iffy to me.

Quoted from 26

However I was in there a couple of weeks ago and when asked, the person serving described the charity as a "family run business". The narrow focus of it looks iffy to me.

Still has the best selection of 2nd hand books in town - and very cheap.  I guess it would put me off if it was a family business masquerading as a charity - but is it?

Actually user makes a good point.

Though you may wish to include Cotton Traders (strictly it's Bridge St) and Jones the Bootmaker (going v soon), it's much better when Woolies left a gaping hole.

Crew Clothing and Hawkins Bazaar are both opening shortly, and both came from them rejecting Parkway, though they had been looking at Newbury for some time.

The theory behind all this is that with Newbury moving up the retail rankings, every time a shop closes, there'll be another national retailer waiting in the wings, because they want to be in the top 200 trading locations in the country (we were 180th before the Vision).

Hawkins Bazaar has already opened in the old Next shop - which is still available to let.  I assumed they were just  one of those christmas shops that turn up at this time of year and disappear in January.

If you are stretching into Bridge St you could also include the Broadway (the Clock Tower and the old Threshers are both vacant).

Hawkins are in the old Dixons unit. The YMCA are the temporary tennants of the old Next unit.

Hawkins sell a rather better sort of 'stocking filler' present. A bit like the gadgets shop that was in the KC, but with some thought & quality in the products for sale.

There are several empty Northbrook St units as you can't count the ones filled by temporary charity shops.

Quoted from blackdog

Still has the best selection of 2nd hand books in town - and very cheap.  I guess it would put me off if it was a family business masquerading as a charity - but is it?

I have a feeling much of the stock of books came from the Bristol Bookbarn which shut about 18 months ago leaving several tens of thousands of books in the unit they had. People were told to come & help themselves to the stock & take what they wanted.

I wouldn't call it cheap mind....

Quoted from 78

Hawkins are in the old Dixons unit. The YMCA are the temporary tennants of the old Next unit.  

Sorry - got that one wrong, didn't realise the YMCA were only temporary though.

Quoted from blackdog

Sorry - got that one wrong, didn't realise the YMCA were only temporary though.

Thinking back of shops that opened over the years I think most new shops end up only being temporary in Newbury!  

Wonder why that is?

Quoted from Cognosco

Thinking back of shops that opened over the years I think most new shops end up only being temporary in Newbury!  

Wonder why that is?

Come on Cognosco - tell us what you think the reason 'most new shops end up only being temporary'.

Quoted from 78

Come on Cognosco - tell us what you think the reason 'most new shops end up only being temporary'.

Well as you know I am not ranked high enough to have opinions really? I am not User and I don't have a lot of faith in the local councils shall we say? But I have a sneaky suspicion that it has to do with high rates and rents particularly considering the low footfall we have, compared to other shoping centres, and the problems with infrastructer. I accept some other towns have problems with traffic congestion at peak times but Newbury seems to have problems most of the time especially at weekends, and this does not even take into account the problems associated with the races. Most other towns try to make customers welcome but Newbury seems to give the impression that they are not welcome and if they come then they are the source of income to the councils even if they are paying taxes to the local councils already. The suspicion I have is that Newbuty wants to be another Reading, Basingstoke etc but does not want to spend the money on the facilities that are required. In other words the councils would like to be a Rolls Royce of a market town and Shopping cerntre but on the budget of a Lada.  

Quoted from Cognosco

In other words the councils would like to be a Rolls Royce of a market town and Shopping cerntre but on the budget of a Lada.  

Sounds like a good idea to me!

Quoted from Cognosco

Well as you know I am not ranked high enough to have opinions really? I am not User and I don't have a lot of faith in the local councils shall we say? But I have a sneaky suspicion that it has to do with high rates and rents particularly considering the low footfall we have, compared to other shoping centres, and the problems with infrastructer. I accept some other towns have problems with traffic congestion at peak times but Newbury seems to have problems most of the time especially at weekends, and this does not even take into account the problems associated with the races. Most other towns try to make customers welcome but Newbury seems to give the impression that they are not welcome and if they come then they are the source of income to the councils even if they are paying taxes to the local councils already. The suspicion I have is that Newbuty wants to be another Reading, Basingstoke etc but does not want to spend the money on the facilities that are required. In other words the councils would like to be a Rolls Royce of a market town and Shopping cerntre but on the budget of a Lada.  

I suggest you get out more.

Having been to several towns recently I can honestly say Newbury is on a par with most of them. What Newbury lacks is a draw - ie something other than 'going shopping' to draw punters in. So maybe Newbury should splash some cash & build some non retail facilities.  Maybe some kind of Arts Centre, or maybe something to make the most of the canal.....

As to rents - if they are too high & footfall does not warrant such rates, surely the landlords would lower them? I mean, if I owned some prime retail space in Newbury & I could not hold onto a tennant because the price per ft was so high that they made no money I'd lower the price. Better to have a tennant than ending up on a tax fiddle & letting the shop to a charity.

Quoted from 78

Better to have a tennant than ending up on a tax fiddle & letting the shop to a charity.

So why do we have so many charity shops?

Quoted from 78

I suggest you get out more.

Having been to several towns recently I can honestly say Newbury is on a par with most of them. What Newbury lacks is a draw - ie something other than 'going shopping' to draw punters in. So maybe Newbury should splash some cash & build some non retail facilities.  Maybe some kind of Arts Centre, or maybe something to make the most of the canal.....

As to rents - if they are too high & footfall does not warrant such rates, surely the landlords would lower them? I mean, if I owned some prime retail space in Newbury & I could not hold onto a tennant because the price per ft was so high that they made no money I'd lower the price. Better to have a tennant than ending up on a tax fiddle & letting the shop to a charity.

I would be very interested to know what towns you have visited then? I must have missed those somehow in my many travels. Always willing to learn.

Nothing wrong with an Arts Centre as long as the local taxpayers want one and it is not built on open green space. But I do believe, from User that the new policy of the council is that those who want any one thing have to pay for it now?  

Agree whole heartedly with you they should lower the rents and taxes as the footfall is so low in Newbury, glad you agree. So there must be something in my suspicion this is the cause, just count how many charity shops there are or as you suggest is it just the landlords on a tax fiddle. Is it because if they let them at high rents the tenants would expect them to be of a decent standard whereas a charity will not mind if the state of decor and repairs are not up to par. Why does a landlord have to go and spend a lot of capital tarting a shop up to let when from past experience he knows not many tenants will survive very long in Newbury. That is without taking into account todays difficult trading position, when he can make just as much letting it to a charity without spending capital and making probably just as much with, as you state a "tax fiddle"

Thanks for enlightening me, as I say always willing to listen and learn.  

Quoted from blackdog

So why do we have so many charity shops?

More and more charity shops are popping up on the high street and occupying empty properties across the country so landlords can avoid taxes.

Charities pay vastly reduced business rates, so landlords are leasing shops to charities to ensure that they pay less tax.  

In April 2008 legislation was introduced which forced landlords to pay business rates on empty properties, including empty industrial, office and retail premises.

But charities get an 80 per cent tax exemption so they are ideal tenants for landlords who want to pay less tax on their empty shops and properties.

Since 2007 the number of charity shops has increased from 75,800 to 79,100 and since 2008 there has been a 39 per cent increase in the value of tax relief claimed by charities against business rates.

An increasing number of charities are taking on shop leases because landlords can claim tax relief for between three and six months if a building has been occupied for just six weeks.

“Landlords are saying please come in and make use of the property to get the tax relief and I will give you a nice little donation,” said Mr Schurder of property consultants Gerald Eve.

The reduction of business rates tax relief will be tightened even further this April when smaller properties will no longer qualify for tax relief from paying business rates when empty.

Previously, the limit had been for buildings with a rateable value (roughly equivalent to a building’s rental cost) of less than £18,000.

So we can expect a plethora of charity shops to spring up in the rest of the town when Park Way opens then?

Quoted from 78

[i]More and more charity shops are popping up on the high street and occupying empty properties across the country so landlords can avoid taxes.

Charities pay vastly reduced business rates, so landlords are leasing shops to charities to ensure that they pay less tax.  

...

Yes - that's why I thought we had lots of charity shops.

But you said:

Quoted from 78

...  if I owned some prime retail space in Newbury & I could not hold onto a tennant because the price per ft was so high that they made no money I'd lower the price. Better to have a tennant than ending up on a tax fiddle & letting the shop to a charity.

So I wondered why you thought we had so many charity shops as you seemed to think it was better to lower the rent and get a proper tenant.

Quoted from blackdog

Yes - that's why I thought we had lots of charity shops.

But you said:


So I wondered why you thought we had so many charity shops as you seemed to think it was better to lower the rent and get a proper tenant.

Ah, I see.  

Maybe beacuse most landlords are not as forward thinking as me. - And, Charity shops fall in to two groups. Those take advantage of landlords looking to let on short leases until someone better comes along ( YMCA springs to mind - their reason for moving from theri smaller shop was that the rent was 'too high' ) and those with a long term presence in mind ( such as Oxfam ).

Can't take the truth ah!

Quoted from 78

Ah, I see.  

Maybe beacuse most landlords are not as forward thinking as me. - And, Charity shops fall in to two groups. Those take advantage of landlords looking to let on short leases until someone better comes along ( YMCA springs to mind - their reason for moving from theri smaller shop was that the rent was 'too high' ) and those with a long term presence in mind ( such as Oxfam ).

So even charity shops with the relevant subsidy find it too expensive to operate in Newbury? Thanks for confirming my suspicion!  

Quoted from Cognosco

So even charity shops with the relevant subsidy find it too expensive to operate in Newbury? Thanks for confirming my suspicion!  

Confirming what? Your confussion? read again - YMCA moved down the high st to a shop twice the size & stated reason for the move was the previous rent was too high.

Quoted from 78

Confirming what? Your confussion? read again - YMCA moved down the high st to a shop twice the size & stated reason for the move was the previous rent was too high.

Who's confusion are we refering to? You stated they moved because the previous rent was too High So even with the subsidised rent they had to move as thier rent was too high! Size does not enter into it. They moved because they were unable to afford the rent - yes or no? Case proven or not?  

Quoted from Cognosco

Who's confusion are we refering to? You stated they moved because the previous rent was too High So even with the subsidised rent they had to move as thier rent was too high! Size does not enter into it. They moved because they were unable to afford the rent - yes or no? Case proven or not?  

Not. The said that the previous rent was too high, yet manage to afford a unit twice the size. Do I need to spell it out for you?

btw there is no evidence that the rent is subsidised. The rates may well be. It is the landlord who gets the rebate. Hence the landlord's willingness to have charity shops as tennants.  

Quoted from 78

Not. The said that the previous rent was too high, yet manage to afford a unit twice the size. Do I need to spell it out for you?

btw there is no evidence that the rent is subsidised. The rates may well be. It is the landlord who gets the rebate. Hence the landlord's willingness to have charity shops as tennants.  

It is quite usual for rent to be subsidised for a while to attract a shop to move - so althought not proved quite likely.

I suspect that the rent is subsidised and am sure if a retail establishment wanted to move in the charity would be pushed out!

Quoted from Nobby

It is quite usual for rent to be subsidised for a while to attract a shop to move - so althought not proved quite likely.

I suspect that the rent is subsidised and am sure if a retail establishment wanted to move in the charity would be pushed out!

Without a doubt. The old Dorthy Perkins unit has such a tennant & still displays the estate agents sign.

What can happen however is that the charity shop pays the 'going rate',  ( by taking into account the tax concessions the landlord revieves or not ).

Quoted from 78

Not. The said that the previous rent was too high, yet manage to afford a unit twice the size. Do I need to spell it out for you?

btw there is no evidence that the rent is subsidised. The rates may well be. It is the landlord who gets the rebate. Hence the landlord's willingness to have charity shops as tennants.  

The new premises may be bigger but that doesn't necessarily mean that it costs more. Bigger isn't always more expensive

Quoted from Bartholomew

The new premises may be bigger but that doesn't necessarily mean that it costs more. Bigger isn't always more expensive

care to share some Northbrook st examples?

Quoted from 78

Not. The said that the previous rent was too high, yet manage to afford a unit twice the size. Do I need to spell it out for you?

btw there is no evidence that the rent is subsidised. The rates may well be. It is the landlord who gets the rebate. Hence the landlord's willingness to have charity shops as tennants.  

If they were unable to afford the rent for the smaller shop I assume they would be unable to afford the rent for a larger shop unless it happened that the rent was less than the smaller shop? Yes please spell it out for me as I need all the help I can get! But if you cared to explain it fully before posting IE they were unable to afford the rent on a small shop but they could afford the larger rent on a larger shop that was perhaps twice as expensive then I would have understood.  

Quoted from Cognosco

If they were unable to afford the rent for the smaller shop I assume they would be unable to afford the rent for a larger shop unless it happened that the rent was less than the smaller shop? Yes please spell it out for me as I need all the help I can get! But if you cared to explain it fully before posting IE they were unable to afford the rent on a small shop but they could afford the larger rent on a larger shop that was perhaps twice as expensive then I would have understood.  

The reason quoted in the NWN wasn't the true reason. The real reason was between landlords & tennant.

I think the ploy is called being 'economical with the truth'.

Presumably the shops moving into Parkway will have been offered rent free deals.  Muddler?

Quoted from 78

The reason quoted in the NWN wasn't the true reason. The real reason was between landlords & tennant.

I think the ploy is called being 'economical with the truth'.

They should become politicians then!!

Quoted from 78

care to share some Northbrook st examples?

Examples of what? I was replying to a statement that had an assumption that bigger premises are more expensive. I don't know the details here but I do know that rents in some retail units have dropped quite significantly. It may be that this is what has happened here. If you know better, then I accept you know more than I do and maybe you can share that.

Quoted from 78

care to share some Northbrook st examples?

Well....Ladbrokes were told the rent was going up due to it now adjoining Parkway. So they told em to stick it and moved over the road. It's not bigger, but it is cheaper (than the new rent asked over the road).

Do I win a prize?  

I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the recent resurfacing in Northbrook St - for some reason I thought the brick pavers would be extended up past the entrance to Parkway. A bit of new tarmac and some white lines is not what I was expecting.

It makes the decision to demolish listed buildings in order to have the entrance opposite West Street even dafter than I thought in the past - surely it would have been better and safer to have the main entrance leading out of the pedestrianised area?

btw -

was in Harper's new store today. It is a temporary store, looks like they have taken the lease just up until Xmas, if the lighting & decor is anything to go by.

Harpers?

Harper's Bazaar - xmas shop in the old Dixon's shop. Or an American fashion magazine.

Quoted from blackdog

Harper's Bazaar - xmas shop in the old Dixon's shop. Or an American fashion magazine.

Hawkin's Bazaar I think

Quoted from 1247

Hawkin's Bazaar I think

Hawkins / Harpers  - They have had a shop in Basingstoke's Festival Place since FP opened.

Looks like there are just here till Xmas in Newbury.

Quoted from 78

btw -

was in Hawkin's new store today. It is a temporary store, looks like they have taken the lease just up until Xmas, if the lighting & decor is anything to go by.

it's temporary but may become permanent, that's what I was told when I handed my CV in. So I Guess if they do stay it will be done properly.