Seeing that this topic has arisen on the other forum, I thought that the following email circulated to the members of the Newbury Retail Association, would be of interest. It was forwarded to me by a colleague. There was no indication that it was confidential, so here goes...


Premium Price Parking in Park Way.

Nick Carter (Chief Executive at West Berkshire Council) revealed at the Friday meeting of the Town Centre Partnership, that parking charges in the new underground car park at Parkway would be higher than the charges in the rest of the town. He also revealed that there would not be enough spaces allocated for every resident of the apartments in the new development.

Mr Carter had assured me at a previous meeting of the TCP that this would not be the case, and that there was an agreement with SLI (Standard Life Investments) that they would not charge ‘more’ than the current charges in Newbury. Apparently the agreement is that SLI will not charge ‘less’ than the current charges in Newbury.

Mr Carter advised members of the TCP that shoppers would be prepared to pay a ‘premium’ for ‘convenient parking’. He also advised members that SLI would be paying a minimum of £300,000 per annum to West Berkshire Council as part of the agreement for selling off the original car parks in Parkway for £1.00. Presumably this sum will go towards subsidising the existing Newbury car parks.

Traders that I have spoken to since Friday have welcomed this announcement, because they feel it will encourage shoppers to park in other parts of the town. My own thoughts are that it will encourage WBC to raise current charges in the existing car parks.

Brian Burgess

Chairman

01635 569123

There is little that is new in this - only that they intend to charge more than the WBC parks.  This must be good news for WBC, I was concerned that the £300k they collect from Parkway would simply mean that they collect £300k+ less from the other parks (ie that people would park in the convenient Parkway park instead of the WBC parks). If the charges are higher in Parkway it will encourage many to park elsewhere so the revenue from the WBC parks should not drop as much as I feared.

Quoted from Archie

Seeing that this topic has arisen on the other forum, I thought that the following email circulated to the members of the Newbury Retail Association, would be of interest. It was forwarded to me by a colleague. There was no indication that it was confidential, so here goes...

Thanks for posting this Archie. You have probably succeeded in getting me excluded from future meetings of the TCP.

Last year Mr Carter was paid in excess of £158,690.

I wonder if 'economical with the truth' would have been acceptable?

'Tabled an untruth' is another term.

O.K, if that was a tad harsh, how's this?

Last year Mr Carter was paid in excess of £158,690, if we paid a little more could we get one that didn't indulge in terminological inexactitudes?


Threep.

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for posting this Archie. You have probably succeeded in getting me excluded from future meetings of the TCP.

BB - the next Julian Assange!

Quoted from Threepwood

O.K, if that was a tad harsh, how's this? Last year Mr Carter was paid in excess of £158,690, if we paid a little more could we get one that didn't indulge in terminological inexactitudes? Threep.

Or perhaps one that treated the TCP with respect so that when they advise said body, the information they convey is accurate?  To be fair, history shows that it seems some of his back-room staff have difficulty with candour.  Perhaps he was mislead like everyone else?

Quoted from Greenham Common

Or perhaps one that treated the TCP with respect so that when they advise said body, the information they convey is accurate?  To be fair, history shows that it seems some of his back-room staff have difficulty with candour.  Perhaps he was mislead like everyone else?

In which case he should reprimand those responsible, and if it keeps happening dismiss them!

While we're on parking, Gefreiter Vickers has a very good point (and it's not often that you see those words together in the same sentence!) about WBC's parking provision policies, doesn't he?  http://goo.gl/fRTlI

Given that there's likely to be at least one car owner per flat, we're talking about over 100 more cars pushed out onto local roads due to Parkway alone.  What with the looming Carter-Griffin Excrescence and now these parking related debacles, I'm increasingly concerned that the high command have completely lost the plot.  User, any inside info? Are they still all on holiday?

You'd rather hope that people buying these apartments would realise what they're buying before parting with cash.  Too much to assume?  If they get taken in by estate agent's waffle/spin, a lovely brochure and a promise of 'parking in the vicinity' then more fool them.


It's all part of central government plans for sustainable developments, whereby townies don't need to own cars as shops are on their doorsteps, bus routes are close by, as are railway stations.  Occasional car use can be sorted by residents organising a 'car-share scheme'  (But meanwhile....in the REAL world........ the residents are going to be screaming for parking to be provided and are going to jam their cars into nearby roads in the evenings)

Quoted from spartacus

The residents are going to be screaming for parking to be provided and are going to jam their cars into nearby roads in the evenings)

Where are the nearby roads adjacent to Parkway that they will jam?

If every apartment in Parkway has at least one car, then we will be 71 spaces short for residents parking. Some of them will have 2 cars, so I estimate at least 100 vehicles looking for overnight parking. In the old days Pelican Lane car park would have been ideal, but now with a £1 overnight fee (£313 per annum after deducting free parking on a Sunday) this will not be an option.

Oh Mr Carter! You have not thought this through properly. I sense unrest from the residents of Cartergrad Towers over this one.

Quoted from BrianB

Thanks for posting this Archie. You have probably succeeded in getting me excluded from future meetings of the TCP.

Looks like the lunatics have taken over the asylum this week.

Quoted from Archie

Where are the nearby roads adjacent to Parkway that they will jam?

'Nearby' in this context means any bit of road within walking distance from their flat - as that would be their only viable option. The options are fairly limited I admit and they'll be competing for that space with the existing residents, but most of the restrictions end at 6pm and the areas then become a bit of a free-for-all.  St Mary's Road, Charlton Place maybe? (just a short walk through the park to home).  London Rd has parking bays... North end of Northbrook St?

We'll probably find cars parked in the oddest places and nooks/crannies where the wardens can't issue tickets.  Car owners can be quite inventive when they are desperate.  Suggest NTC strengthen the gates/bollards that prevent cars parking on the grass in Vicky Park.....  

I also predict a petition being submitted by the new residents demanding part of the park in converted to hard standing parking for them....

Given the extra vehicle numbers due to residents and the buses trundling along and the taxis looking for space and the artics and HGV's servicing the new shops including Wilkinson, M&S and Camps, all this in addition to the cars coming and going from the underground car park and the Camps car park, that is going to be one very busy little road. The worst part is that apart from the buses and taxis allowed over the bridge, everything else has to meet the traffic on the London Road and then make its way home. That means turn right past the entrance of the new hotel and what may become a supermarket (the old Wheelers Garage) and then negotiate the Robin Hood. Westbound traffic still has to meet London Road but turn left across the bottom of the town to exit past the Waitrose exit. Reckon this might be the sort of traffic hiatus that we used to see coming out of the wharf. Having allowed the hotel build, I don't see how that Parkway/London Road junction can be improved as there is now no room to expand it unless there is some master plan I've missed such as traffic lights.

As if the WBC's executives give a sh1t about that.  Traffic chaos will be their proof they were right to push for this stinking development.

Just for the record, and as I've mentioned before, apart from the parking issue to which Tony Vickers drew attention, I have no major problems with the Parkway development.

I am concerned about the knock on effects that Parkway will have on the rest of town but as we've already discussed, part of the solution to that is to locate the proposed pavilion in Northbrook Street rather than on a greenfield site in the park.  

Another possible location for the arts centre would be in the acres of empty space below the cinema which was supposed to be filled by restaurants: that must be available at a knock down price by now, eh Mag?  An arts centre linked with the cinema, helping to keep the south side of Newbury alive.  What could be better?

Quoted from Archie

Mr Carter had assured me at a previous meeting of the TCP that this would not be the case, and that there was an agreement with SLI (Standard Life Investments) that they would not charge ‘more’ than the current charges in Newbury. Apparently the agreement is that SLI will not charge ‘less’ than the current charges in Newbury.

Welcome to Cartergrad. Prices set by the state...private companies forced to comply.

Quoted from Muddler

Welcome to Cartergrad. Prices set by the state...private companies forced to comply.

I seems to me to be the other way round.

Looks like this Parkway cash is going to come in handy.

The green meanies are expected to be £75k short this year (on top of £200k short last year).

http://decisionmaking.westberks.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=9000

The Parkway conundrum continues then....

Swindon's Brunel Centre (in the town) has just CUT parking to 50p an hour.
Basingstoke's Festival Place is holding its rate at £1 an hour.

A zero sum game indeed

Quoted from Muddler

The Parkway conundrum continues then....

Swindon's Brunel Centre (in the town) has just CUT parking to 50p an hour.
Basingstoke's Festival Place is holding its rate at £1 an hour.

A zero sum game indeed

Hang on Muddler, that's a bit misleading. The Brunel Centre are offering 4 hours parking for £2; they know that the majority of customers park for 1 or two hours, so most customers will not get the 50p per hour rate. Basingstoke is a good centre to compare prices and the £1 for an hour seems a reasonable charge; they do however, charge full tariff on Sundays and Bank Holidays against Newbury's free (or soon to be £1) daily rate.

Quoted from Muddler

Looks like this Parkway cash is going to come in handy.

The green meanies are expected to be £75k short this year (on top of £200k short last year).

http://decisionmaking.westberks.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=9000

But the Parkway cash will not necessarily be new cash - many may choose to park there for convenience - and hence will not pay WBC for their parking. Instead they will pay SLI subcontractors, who in turn will hand over a part of the payment to WBC.  So WBC may get, say, 50p an hour for a car parked in Parkway. Thus the total car parking cash going into WBC's coffers will be less than at present. Of course Parkway may be a roaring success and thousands more cars will ruch to park in Newbury and WBC will get oodles of cash from the parking - only time will tell.

Quoted from NewburyP

Newbury's free (or soon to be £1) daily rate.

Obviously you are "in the know" on this one NewburyP. Again when I have asked about Sunday parking charges, I have been advised that there were no plans to introduce parking charges in Newbury on a Sunday.

Goal posts are moving again. I suppose £1 all day is better than the current punitive daily charges.

Presumably Parkway want to charge on a Sunday, and they don't want people parking for free in a WBC car park and walking through the town to reach the new shops.

Good news...I've just been on to the Office of Fair Trading to ask whether councils are subject to competition law. The lady said it depends. I told her that WBC appears to be colluding with a private car park operator to fix prices in Newbury town centre.

There are some very interesting penalties if anti-competitive behaviour can be proven.

Who'd have thought it in Cartelgrad.

Quoted from BrianB

Obviously you are "in the know" on this one NewburyP. Again when I have asked about Sunday parking charges, I have been advised that there were no plans to introduce parking charges in Newbury on a Sunday.

Goal posts are moving again. I suppose £1 all day is better than the current punitive daily charges.

Presumably Parkway want to charge on a Sunday, and they don't want people parking for free in a WBC car park and walking through the town to reach the new shops.

The introduction of a charge on Sunday is to be discussed by WBC in a couple of weeks - publically available info - whether or not it will go through is another question, I simply suspect that it will given that WBC parking policy - publically available - states that WBC's position is in favour of Sunday charging. I am not 'in the know' I simply read the information available from WBC website. Admittedly you do have to dig around but it is all there. The parking policy was published several years ago so you have been mis-informed about no plans to charge; I suspect that WBC is using Parkway as the catalyst to implement a long standing policy.

Quoted from Muddler

Good news...I've just been on to the Office of Fair Trading to ask whether councils are subject to competition law. The lady said it depends. I told her that WBC appears to be colluding with a private car park operator to fix prices in Newbury town centre.

There are some very interesting penalties if anti-competitive behaviour can be proven.

Perhaps as a result of this WBC won't be able to offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges with public money could be deemed as anti-competitive; just a thought. You may have forced up the prices at all council car parks in Newbury.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps as a result of this WBC won't be able to offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges with public money could be deemed as anti-competitive; just a thought. You may have forced up the prices at all council car parks in Newbury.

How is it subsidised? Are you saying WBC are so incompetent that it costs them more to run the car parks than they receive in revenue?

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps as a result of this WBC won't be able to offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges with public money could be deemed as anti-competitive; just a thought. You may have forced up the prices at all council car parks in Newbury.

But giving away the centre of Newbury for £1 isn't subsidising?

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps as a result of this WBC won't be able to offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges with public money could be deemed as anti-competitive; just a thought. You may have forced up the prices at all council car parks in Newbury.

See what you've done now Muddler!!! If WBC don't offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges public money could be deemed as anti-competitive, you'll be entirely to blame! How are you going to get us out of this mess? (Isn't it great to be chatting about parking again, btw.  Love it!)

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps as a result of this WBC won't be able to offer cheaper parking than Parkway as subsidising parking charges with public money could be deemed as anti-competitive; just a thought. You may have forced up the prices at all council car parks in Newbury.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. I can't see any money going into a subsidy for parking. What is actually happening, as I see it, is a shortfall against budget. The cost of running the carparking is not that great but of course I would suspect the cost of the Greenmeanies will have to be factored into the calculations. That of course is a real cost which is required to keep the motorists in line. So not anti-competitive after all and if WBC really took a budgeted loss on parking, it would only really mean a shifting of income from other cost centres to balance the overall budget because someone has got his/her sums wrong, not a subsidy

Subsidies don't come into it. If WBC have been colluding with Standard Life to fix car park prices in town, then that will be investigated by the OFT. It's the law user, not me.

I believe it has now been confirmed that parking in the new Parkway underground car park will be £1.50 for the first hour. Over this time, charges seem to correspond to existing WBC charges.

I sincerely hope that WBC don't take this as carte blanche to raise the other town centre car parks to this level of charging for the first hour.

Hi Brian,

Is there any news on Sunday charging?

Best Wishes,

Richard Garvie

Quoted from richard.garvie

Hi Brian,

Is there any news on Sunday charging?

Best Wishes,

Richard Garvie

Best Wishes? you'll be sending me love and kisses soon.

As far as I am aware WBC have put plans for Sunday charging "on hold" for the time being.

There will however be Sunday charging in the Parkway car park as there currently is in the Camp Hopson car park.

Car parking at Parkway is being restricted because of the spaces needed for John Lewis. However, they do have "extra" capacity over Christmas, because the residential spaces will be available until the residents move in.

What I meant was, is there a parking charge in Parkway on Sundays. If there is, any idea how much?

Quoted from richard.garvie

What I meant was, is there a parking charge in Parkway on Sundays. If there is, any idea how much?

Sorry Richard!

I have to correct my reply.

Parking all day on Sunday 8am till 6pm £2.00 all day.

Overnight charge £1.00

I didn't think it would be that expensive.

Quoted from richard.garvie

I didn't think it would be that expensive.

For most shopping destinations, Sunday is the busiest day of the week. Parkway will probably have to be permanently manned and also has to pay WBC £300,000.00 per annum. It is unreasonable to expect them to offer free parking on a Sunday.

I appreciate that. I would have thought they would have dscounted the hourly charge for each hour that you are at the shopping centre like others do though.

Parkway parking charges: http://www.shopatparkway.com/customer-services/car-parking

£2 for Sunday 8am-6pm.
£1 evenins

Not exactly £1.50 an hour (see link).

Keeping the prices high keeps out the riff raff.

Interesting. Here's Festival Place on the left and Parkway in brackets.

Up to 1 hr      £  1.00 (£1.50)
1 - 2 hours     £  2.00 (£2.50)
2 - 3 hours     £  2.80 (£3.50)
3 - 4 hours     £  3.40 (£4.50)
4 - 5 hours     £  4.50 (£6.50)
5 - 6 hours     £  5.50 (£8.50)
6 - 7 hours     £  6.50 (£8.50)
7 - 8 hours     £  9.00 (£8.50)
8 - 9 hours     £11.00 (£12.00)
9 - 24 hours     £15.00 (£12.00)

Quoted from Muddler

Interesting. Here's Festival Place on the left and Parkway in brackets.

Thought I'd add in The Oracle []:

Up to 1 hr      £  1.00 (£1.50) [£1.50]
1 - 2 hours     £  2.00 (£2.50) [£3.00]
2 - 3 hours     £  2.80 (£3.50) [£4.50]
3 - 4 hours     £  3.40 (£4.50) [£6.00]
4 - 5 hours     £  4.50 (£6.50) [£9.00]
5 - 6 hours     £  5.50 (£8.50) [£9.00]
6 - 7 hours     £  6.50 (£8.50) [£12.00]
7 - 8 hours     £  9.00 (£8.50) [£15.00]
8 - 9 hours     £11.00 (£12.00) [£20.00]
9 - 24 hours     £15.00 (£12.00)

Quoted from blackdog

Thought I'd add in The Oracle []:

Up to 1 hr      £  1.00 (£1.50) [£1.50]
1 - 2 hours     £  2.00 (£2.50) [£3.00]
2 - 3 hours     £  2.80 (£3.50) [£4.50]
3 - 4 hours     £  3.40 (£4.50) [£6.00]
4 - 5 hours     £  4.50 (£6.50) [£9.00]
5 - 6 hours     £  5.50 (£8.50) [£9.00]
6 - 7 hours     £  6.50 (£8.50) [£12.00]
7 - 8 hours     £  9.00 (£8.50) [£15.00]
8 - 9 hours     £11.00 (£12.00) [£20.00]
9 - 24 hours     £15.00 (£12.00)

When you account for the selection of shops you are paying parking to visit at Festival & Oracle and compare it to Newbury's selection  then Newbury is very overpriced indeed.  

Quoted from Cognosco

When you account for the selection of shops you are paying parking to visit at Festival & Oracle and compare it to Newbury's selection  then Newbury is very overpriced indeed.  

How much is it to park in Swindon?

Other than B&Q and possibly Homebase, I'm not a shopper but looking at the parking prices I am not about to change my spots.
I wonder  how long it would take for a walk around the shops rather than going for specific items. Within the complex, there are some multi purpose shops like M&S and Debenhams so the general window shopping time could be a couple of hours and with a coffee, that would total up to three hours parking. That adds £3.50 to the day out so I get the feeling that there will be a one off look round and then that'll be that for a couple of months until the season change or whatever else prompts a rash of visits to the multiples. Maybe the public transport links will soften the burden but a return ticket from out of town is not exactly cheap.
With the parking costs, we may be worrying too soon about "traffic chaos" as the initial rush to look see will quickly be overtaken by reduced traffic levels when normality returns.

For the first time the other afternoon, I had a look around Wilkinson's. Apart from the shop being almost empty of customers, it is streets ahead of Woolworth and I found it quite pleasurable looking around.

Quoted from 78

How much is it to park in Swindon?

Ask Mr Carter

Quoted from 78

How much is it to park in Swindon?

Haven't a clue never had to pay yet! I go to Swindon perhaps four times a year.  

Quoted from 78

How much is it to park in Swindon?

Park & Ride - £0.00 to park, £2.40 bus fare.

Biggest car park in town (Brunel North)
​Up to 1 hour      ​£1.00
​1-4 hours      ​£2.00
​4-6 hours      ​£8.20
​6-8 hours      ​£22.00
​8-24 hours      ​£38.00
Definitely designated as a short stay park!

Quoted from blackdog

Park & Ride - £0.00 to park, £2.40 bus fare.

Biggest car park in town (Brunel North)
​Up to 1 hour      ​£1.00
​1-4 hours      ​£2.00
​4-6 hours      ​£8.20
​6-8 hours      ​£22.00
​8-24 hours      ​£38.00
Definitely designated as a short stay park!

Don't bode well for Parkway does it? Still I suppose you can see all of the shops in Park Way in 30 Minutes or less so it may not work out so expensive in the end but they may not be in so much of a hurry to return too frequently!  

£22 for six hours? Don't make a day of it in Swindon!

Quoted from user23.3

£22 for six hours? Don't make a day of it in Swindon!

Who would be shopping for six hours! Perhaps they could charge for the minute in Parkway that way you could have a look around and be gone within five minutes job done!  

Quoted from user23.3

£22 for six hours? Don't make a day of it in Swindon!

If you're going for 6 or more hours use the park and ride (£2.40 bus fare) for as long as you want. Or use a long stay car park (if you don't know where to park for free).

Not that I recommend Swindon to anyone.

Quoted from blackdog

If you're going for 6 or more hours use the park and ride (£2.40 bus fare) for as long as you want. Or use a long stay car park (if you don't know where to park for free).

Not that I recommend Swindon to anyone.

Not the best but I am the wrong person to be consulted regarding shopping. Still far better selection of shops last time I was there than the whole of Newbury, including the new Parkway, so again the signs do not bode well?  

Newbury has enough shops for me - without Parkway.  If I need anything that isn't available in Newbury (can't remember the last time that happened) then I have the internet and am in Reading a couple of times a month.  It's ages since I've been to Basingstoke - went once to see Festival Place and was completely unimpressed.

Quoted from blackdog

Newbury has enough shops for me - without Parkway.  If I need anything that isn't available in Newbury (can't remember the last time that happened) then I have the internet and am in Reading a couple of times a month.  It's ages since I've been to Basingstoke - went once to see Festival Place and was completely unimpressed.

Oh dear Oh dear I am looking forward to your description of Parkway next week then? Please don't start upsetting User you know how he gets about critisism  

Why should user get upset? PW is a development by SLI, not WBC......

Quoted from 78

Why should user get upset? PW is a development by SLI, not WBC......

What's this?

Quoted from user23.3

What's this?

Cosnostco said - Oh dear Oh dear I am looking forward to your description of Parkway next week then? Please don't start upsetting User you know how he gets about critisism

And I was wondering why that should upset you as PW is SLI's development....

Quoted from 78

Why should user get upset? PW is a development by SLI, not WBC......

Oh no double barrelled now - me and my mouth?

I think you may have missed some of the posts then - whenever anyone has dared to critisise Parkway they get it in the neck from User.  

Quoted from 78

Cosnostco said - Oh dear Oh dear I am looking forward to your description of Parkway next week then? Please don't start upsetting User you know how he gets about critisism

And I was wondering why that should upset you as PW is SLI's development....

Ah, he's trying to wind you up as you're the last one who still replies to him.

Suggest you use the Ignore feature on here. I haven't read a word he's posted for months.

Quoted from user23.3

Ah, he's trying to wind you up as you're the last one who still replies to him.

Suggest you use the Ignore feature on here. I haven't read a word he's posted for months.

Come on User don't tell such Porkies you know you read me avidly. I do believe you don't reply because you know I won't be browbeaten by you. Come on User come out to play with the rest of the gang I promise not to bully you too much!