I don't think that we have discussed this in depth on this forum, but it does seem that Newbury Town Council have taken what appears to be a very strong stance against the pavilion in Victoria Park.

This is taken from the minutes of the Policy and Resources committee meeting held on Monday 18th July.

Item 12. VICTORIA PARK

PROPOSED: Councillor David Allen

SECONDED: Councillor Gabrielle McGarvey

RESOLVED:

(1) That this Council supports the principle of appropriate modest development in Victoria
Park that meets the reasonable needs of the Park’s users and service providers and of the
Council as the Park’s guardians and maintainers.

(2) However, this Council is opposed to any development in Victoria Park or its
surroundings that is overbearing on the Park and its setting, particularly in the context of the
revised plans for the Parkway development to accommodate John Lewis.

(3) That new and re-provided arts and leisure facilities in the town centre are welcomed in
principle by this Council, however this Council believes that the case for locating such
facilities in Victoria Park has not been made and cannot be countenanced unless supported
by the majority of Newbury residents.

Councillors Jeff Beck, Adrian Edwards, Dave Goff, Richard Kingsley Evans and Tony
Stretton voted against the proposal.

5:2 against the proposal doesn't look like taking a strong stance to me.

Quoted from BrianB

I don't think that we have discussed this in depth on this forum, but it does seem that Newbury Town Council have taken what appears to be a very strong stance against the pavilion in Victoria Park.

This is taken from the minutes of the Policy and Resources committee meeting held on Monday 18th July.

Item 12. VICTORIA PARK

PROPOSED: Councillor David Allen

SECONDED: Councillor Gabrielle McGarvey

RESOLVED:

(1) That this Council supports the principle of appropriate modest development in Victoria
Park that meets the reasonable needs of the Park’s users and service providers and of the
Council as the Park’s guardians and maintainers.

(2) However, this Council is opposed to any development in Victoria Park or its
surroundings that is overbearing on the Park and its setting, particularly in the context of the
revised plans for the Parkway development to accommodate John Lewis.

(3) That new and re-provided arts and leisure facilities in the town centre are welcomed in
principle by this Council, however this Council believes that the case for locating such
facilities in Victoria Park has not been made and cannot be countenanced unless supported
by the majority of Newbury residents.

Councillors Jeff Beck, Adrian Edwards, Dave Goff, Richard Kingsley Evans and Tony
Stretton voted against the proposal.

Very good decision! Or is this just for show? Wonder what will happen when big brothers WBC and the Newbury Few bring pressure to bear will they then back down? Watch this space very closely.  

Quoted from Greenham Common

5:2 against the proposal doesn't look like taking a strong stance to me.

There were 12 councillors present.

7 voted in favour (Lib Dems)

5 voted against (Conservative)

Quoted from BrianB

There were 12 councillors present.

7 voted in favour (Lib Dems)

5 voted against (Conservative)

This what lies at the heart of the problem: people voting for party before Newbury.  Newbury doesn't need these vermin.

Quoted from Greenham Common

This what lies at the heart of the problem: people voting for party before Newbury. Newbury doesn't need these vermin.

Of course we do - just ask them?    

This is what happens when democracy fails in a town.

WBC will take about as much notice of the Town Council as they do any other parish council. Toothless tigers, the elders of which ponce around with their chains of office at every opportunity. Why are the conservative councillors against if it wasn't the nudge from the WBC ruling party. Disgraceful that these guys are putting their brown noses ahead of what they must know isn't right for Victoria Park.

We have to remember that of that group, five of them also serve on the WBC. Two of them Lib Dem and three Conservative.

It's a very encouraging sign - albeit a small step forward. It is a great shame that the voting was along party lines, but, at least two more WBC councillors have come out against the monstrosity (which makes two Lib Dems and one Tory so far).

I'm not sure what happens next - does this committee decision go to full council?  Are the part whips in force? As one Tory town councillor is the wife of the WBC Tory councillor who is against the park I would love to see the result of a full council vote.

Quoted from blackdog

It's a very encouraging sign - albeit a small step forward. It is a great shame that the voting was along party lines, but, at least two more WBC councillors have come out against the monstrosity (which makes two Lib Dems and one Tory so far).

I'm not sure what happens next - does this committee decision go to full council?  Are the part whips in force? As one Tory town councillor is the wife of the WBC Tory councillor who is against the park I would love to see the result of a full council vote.

The Councillors will do as they are instructed in the end.... that is normally what happens in Newbury.  

Quoted from Greenham Common

This what lies at the heart of the problem: people voting for party before Newbury.  Newbury doesn't need these vermin.

Except that last time I voted conservative I thought I was voting against all this.

Quoted from 26

Except that last time I voted conservative I thought I was voting against all this.

You believed a politician???  

It's a bit strong to call these people vermin.   Vermin have no idea what they're doing and can't follow a reasoned argument. It's uncalled for to tarnish them by comparing them with the idiot councillors who opposed this motion.

I'd really like to know whether the individuals who supported the building of the monstrous excrescence are actually in favour of destroying a large chunk of the most attractive parts of the park, or whether they simply put blind party loyalty over any personal feelings they may have.  Does anyone know the names of those who voted against?  If so perhaps you could post them here.

This momentous decision by the council didn't get a lot of coverage at the time, did it?  http://goo.gl/W5pMv

Quoted from noobree

Does anyone know the names of those who voted against?  If so perhaps you could post them here.

You obviously did not read the original posting:

Councillors Jeff Beck, Adrian Edwards, Dave Goff, Richard Kingsley Evans and Tony
Stretton voted against the proposal.

Quoted from noobree

Does anyone know the names of those who voted against?  If so perhaps you could post them here.

The names are given in the first post on this thread - all 5 are the Tory members of the committee.
Those voting for (all Lib Dem): David Allen*, Gabrielle McGarvey, Julian Swift-Hook*, Phil Barnett, Martha Vickers, Kim Hodges & Arthur Johnson (*=WBC Cllrs)

The point I make is not whether they voted for it or not, is that they voted down party lines rather than what they believe to be in the best interests of the park or Newbury people.  To me it is a form of corruption and should be stamped out.  These leaches should be thrown out of office.

Jeff Beck is the current Mayor of Newbury, and as such should not be allowed to vote for party policy. At the very least he should have refrained from voting.

I cannot understand how the Mayor considers the pavilion project to be worthwhile.

Quoted from blackdog

The names are given in the first post on this thread - all 5 are the Tory members of the committee.
Those voting for (all Lib Dem): David Allen*, Gabrielle McGarvey, Julian Swift-Hook*, Phil Barnett, Martha Vickers, Kim Hodges & Arthur Johnson (*=WBC Cllrs)

Oops, sorry - of course.  Contact details here for those wishing to express their views:

http://www.newbury.gov.uk/councillors.htm

Quoted from BrianB

You obviously did not read the original posting:

Slapped down by the man himself!! I hang my head in shame.  I read it last night and didn't re-read it before posting this morning.

Meanwhile, there's an excellent piece here by John Gray which explains why the Visioneers will persist with their folly even if it doesn't make any sense.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14587364

A podcast/stream of Gray's talk is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01391jt

Includes his analysis of the likely fate of the Euro and an observation on the Vietnam War.

Is the man who put this motion forward the same Lib Dem who said this? (see end of story).

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/Article.aspx?articleID=11499

Quoted from noobree

Includes his analysis of the likely fate of the Euro and an observation on the Vietnam War.

Looks like we're back to the Viet Cong again.

Quoted from user23.3

Looks like we're back to the Viet Cong again.

Looks like we are trying to deflect again.   Now about the Pavillion Pigeon Loft where were we?  

Quoted from user23.3

Looks like we're back to the Viet Cong again.

Is User 23 inferring that isn't real democracy in WBC.  Presumably he has inside info on this!

Quoted from Nobby

Is User 23 inferring that isn't real democracy in WBC.  Presumably he has inside info on this!

No, User23 is implying, you are inferring!  

Quoted from Greenham Common

No, User23 is implying, you are inferring!  

I was referring actually, to an analogy noobree made to those who dislike the idea of a new arts centre being located where young people can easily access it and the Viet Cong.

Quoted from user23.3

I was referring actually, to an analogy noobree made to those who dislike the idea of a new arts centre being located where young people can easily access it and the Viet Cong.

He was just deflecting that WBC are likely to do something they wish rather than what the rate-payers want. Covered up by the usual fiddling of the figures of course.

It's astonishing that all the Conservative councillors voted against this proposal. Are they all in favour of the destruction that this building will cause?  Do they not think that there are better alternative locations?

I've always felt that it's insane to run party politics on political lines.  This really does prove it.

Quoted from noobree

It's astonishing that all the Conservative councillors voted against this proposal. Are they all in favour of the destruction that this building will cause?  Do they not think that there are better alternative locations?

I've always felt that it's insane to run party politics on political lines.  This really does prove it.

How else should party politics be run, if not on political lines?

Not sure what to make of the Pavillion to be honest - but really wish people wouldn't call it Viccy Park. I know it's totally snobby but Victoria Park sounds so much grander  

Quoted from PaulaM

Not sure what to make of the Pavillion to be honest - but really wish people wouldn't call it Viccy Park.

Yes, it should be Vicki Park  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Yes, it should be Vicki Park  

I beg to differ ..... I think it Vicky  

Quoted from user23.3

How else should party politics be run, if not on political lines?

That's crazy talk, User, and you know it. You'll be quoting the Viet Cong next.

(Pssst I meant to say 'parish councils shouldn't be run on political lines' but don't tell User!)

Quoted from Muddler

Is the man who put this motion forward the same Lib Dem who said this? (see end of story).

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/Article.aspx?articleID=11499

Yes it is - and he has gone up in my estimation for having the guts to change his mind.

Quoted from blackdog

Yes it is - and he has gone up in my estimation for having the guts to change his mind.

I'm not too fussed by u-turns and opportunism...but I'm not sure we need him or Lib Dems on our side. This is not even a battle between WBC and the people.

It's about a self-interested elite versus the thousands of local people who want NOTHING built on our park.

Quoted from blackdog

Yes it is - and he has gone up in my estimation for having the guts to change his mind.

Or having the lack of forethought for previous decisions, but yes, he seems to be responding to a section of people who are complaining.

Quoted from Muddler

It's about a self-interested elite versus the thousands of local people who want NOTHING built on our park.

Does anyone know how many of those who have direct responsibility for the Vision actually live in Newbury?

Well, dear old Pamela Bale doesn't that's for sure.

I wonder how many expressing their views here actually live in Victoria Ward?

Quoted from user23.3

I wonder how many expressing their views here actually live in Victoria Ward?

The fecking ijiot now thinks the park is just for those in the ward!!


Is your website just for those in the Market Street???

Quoted from brian

Well, dear old Pamela Bale doesn't that's for sure.

Nor does Nick Carter, Graham Jones or Patrick Griffin - but David Appleton does.

Quoted from Nobby

The fecking ijiot now thinks the park is just for those in the ward!!


Is your website just for those in the Market Street???

I'm afraid User has totally lost what little was left of his credibility with that post. I wanted to go to one of the shops in Northbrook Street today but as I don't live in that ward, will that be OK.

Quoted from brian

I'm afraid User has totally lost what little was left of his credibility with that post. I wanted to go to one of the shops in Northbrook Street today but as I don't live in that ward, will that be OK.

There seemed to be some question about whether certain people who have some influence on the development of the town live in Newbury.

I was just asking a similar question of those expressing an opinion on Victoria Park as to whether they lived in Victoria Ward.

Quoted from user23.3

There seemed to be some question about whether certain people who have some influence on the development of the town live in Newbury.

I was just asking a similar question of those expressing an opinion on Victoria Park as to whether they lived in Victoria Ward.

A bit different though don't you think? I live in St John's but go through or past Victoria Park every day on my route to numerous locations. I doubt Graham Jones or Nick Carter consider the park as part of their daily lives. I should add that I am from Bristol. How odd it would be if people living in Swindon (roughly equidistant) or Bath (roughly the same distance as Lambourn to here) were deciding the future of such a city? Nick Carter doesn't even live in West Berkshire for goodness sake.

Quoted from 26

A bit different though don't you think? I live in St John's but go through or past Victoria Park every day on my route to numerous locations. I doubt Graham Jones or Nick Carter consider the park as part of their daily lives. I should add that I am from Bristol. How odd it would be if people living in Swindon (roughly equidistant) or Bath (roughly the same distance as Lambourn to here) were deciding the future of such a city? Nick Carter doesn't even live in West Berkshire for goodness sake.

Yes but he is paid a very good salary to know just what is best for you!  

Quoted from user23.3

There seemed to be some question about whether certain people who have some influence on the development of the town live in Newbury.

I was just asking a similar question of those expressing an opinion on Victoria Park as to whether they lived in Victoria Ward.

I have to confess that I have never lived in Victoria ward but one of the earliest snapshots of me was in my pram with my mum in Victoria park, I have later pictures taken just post war with the concrete tank traps in the background. My children and my grandchildren played and play there and none of them live or have lived in Victoria ward. But, I feel entitled to attempt to preserve the green space from those persons who have no connection with the park and probably Newbury itself other than that they work here and have the misguided belief that Newbury needs to give up its space for their egoistical plans.

Quoted from brian

I have to confess that I have never lived in Victoria ward but one of the earliest snapshots of me was in my pram with my mum in Victoria park, I have later pictures taken just post war with the concrete tank traps in the background. My children and my grandchildren played and play there and none of them live or have lived in Victoria ward. But, I feel entitled to attempt to preserve the green space from those persons who have no connection with the park and probably Newbury itself other than that they work here and have the misguided belief that Newbury needs to give up its space for their egoistical plans.

I think it is the latest plan that only those with property overlooking Victoria Park get a say of what is built on it.

One brown nosed individual has already sent in a yes vote!