There doesn't seem to be anything about the specific improvements that that BID will deliver.
Mainly because they want to discuss the requirements and get proposals from the businesses before they start the ball rolling. I know it's not what WBC do but asking and then forming a plan is a good way of going about it.
Mainly because they want to discuss the requirements and get proposals from the businesses before they start the ball rolling. I know it's not what WBC do but asking and then forming a plan is a good way of going about it.
Surely they must have some idea of what they want to do, so that those consulted know the limits of what's possible. I doubt they're really asking "We're not sure what we're doing, can you give us some ideas?" and I would have thought they set their aims out in their business case for the project. Will this be distributed to the local businesses involved?
Not sure what WBC have to do with this either, can you tell me?
Apart from the fact that West Berks are bank rolling a lot of the project through donations to the strategic partnership and so on, nothing at all. But I agree with User23, you would think that this had been thought through before getting to this stage.
Apart from the fact that West Berks are bank rolling a lot of the project through donations to the strategic partnership and so on, nothing at all. But I agree with User23, you would think that this had been thought through before getting to this stage.
Yes, I would have thought they'd set out a few specific aims of the BID, even if they were fairly broad at the moment.
"We'd like to tax you more but we haven't worked out what to spend it on yet" doesn't seem the most likely strategy to win enough yes votes from local businesses for it to go ahead.
Until the terms of the BID are settled and for this they have taken the positive step of employing someone to drive it forward, there has not been any request for any extra 'tax' and one could be assured that a strategy will be in place before it happens.
Very often, there is a plan to do something or provide a service and the thoughts are laid on the table for all to see. This is an open and sensible way of moving something forward. If the whole thing had been carried out in secret, behind closed doors so to speak, the slightest whiff of it on this forum and they would be castigated for running a secret society. If you cast your mind back, isn't that exactly what the TCP were accused of on here a while back. Which way do you want it.
For User, my parallel with WBC was that there is a body that is very secretive about major plans until suddenly they present us with a fait accompli. The Pavilion springs to mind.
In any project one should set out some specific aims and objectives from the outset. From what I can see, this hasn't happened here but let's hope this doesn't hamper the project which could being great benefits to our town.
If what Richard says is true, that West Berks are bank rolling a lot of the project it would be nice if us taxpayers could have a say in it too.
We've already pumped £2,000,000.00 into the business community in the form of a fancy road surface that has done zilch to improve the fortunes of retail businesses.
In any project one should set out some specific aims and objectives from the outset. From what I can see, this hasn't happened here but let's hope this doesn't hamper the project which could being great benefits to our town.
If what Richard says is true, that West Berks are bank rolling a lot of the project it would be nice if us taxpayers could have a say in it too.
I'd rather scrap the lot and establish an open, transparent and fully elected TCP.
Businesses in the town centre. Meetings should be open to every business in town, and they should elect from within themselves.
That is what happens as far as I can see. The chair is a person who runs an independent business in Newbury. It's run for the retailers by the retailers. Certain people are invited to serve on the group because they can assist the town centre. Police, Racecourse, WBC etc. You go on about the TCP as if it was some sort of secret society. Are you a bit miffed because they can't be a**ed to deal you in. You are not a retailer and as such, I don't really see how you can be critical about what they do or don't do.
Shouldn't us taxpayers and shoppers, the ones that fund the whole thing get a say?
Why not pop along and ask. You will find that the chairperson is a very nice person and if you believe you could carry out an active and meaningful role, I'm sure that your efforts would be appreciated. Of course, we know that won't happen, don't want your cover blown do we.
We do indeed. But the businesses should still be allowed to attend and have their say.
You make that statement as if they are not allowed into the partnership unless they make the right sort of handshake. A large number of your posts seem to present these negative statements which tend to indicate that you know what you are talking about when often, you are dealing out mis information. The chair is Liz Chandler who runs a business in Newbury, Nature's Corner. There is nothing secretive in that. The minutes of their meetings are available and you can clearly see who is involved. If you wish to discuss the TCP then I'm sure she will give you the answers you seem to need. As far as I am aware, but you need to confirm with her, membership is open to anybody who has an interest in developing the town's commercial format and in particular the shopping experience.
In answer to several earlier posts there are over 100 BIDs across the country and all have similar objectives, such as improved marketing and events, enhanced streetscene (seats, hanging baskets, xmas lights), security and town centre management. There will be no surprises in the Newbury BID objectives, but consultation with local businesses will determine what are the priorities.
Whilst the taxpayer funds the initial cost of BIDS they save overall as in most cases Council funding of town centre organisations reduces or ceases following a successful vote. This means that it is local businesses that are contributing funds to improve the town centre - and (hopefully) they will be more engaged as it is their money being spent and not taxpayers.
I would also echo brian's comments that anyone who has an interest in the town centre is very welcome to get involved.
Brian, if I wanted to go along personally I would make the approach. I know of a number of businesses who would like to attend but for whatever reason are unable to attend, and the press / media are also excluded. If the organisation is open to all businesses in the town centre, maybe the details of the next meeting can be published on their website / here and those who wish to attend may do so.
As for the bid process, this has been open and transparent. It's just the examples given so far do nothing for those in Cheap Street / Bart Street (south). It's up to the businesses who will pay the levy to decide if it's worth doing, but for those outside of the Parkway / Northbrook Street / Kennet Centre / Market Place area, it appears to deliver little benefit.
Richard, Any business can attend the Newbury Retail Association where we have been discussing this for about 1 year + you can come along as well, infact all interested parties are welcome, 2nd Tuesday every month.
What seems to happen is that everybody gets excited when these things become public, but, they have been discussed indepth for a long time not in private meeting but in meeting that most interested parties can not be bothered to attend. Looking forward to seeing you.
Ps. To Spartacus, I have used the name "I am Spartacus" as a nod to the film, I had hoped that others would then jump in and say "no I am Spartacus" etc. It has not happened, therefore happy change my name if it annoys you.
Richard, Any business can attend the Newbury Retail Association where we have been discussing this for about 1 year + you can come along as well, infact all interested parties are welcome, 2nd Tuesday every month.
What seems to happen is that everybody gets excited when these things become public, but, they have been discussed indepth for a long time not in private meeting but in meeting that most interested parties can not be bothered to attend. Looking forward to seeing you.
Ps. To Spartacus, I have used the name "I am Spartacus" as a nod to the film, I had hoped that others would then jump in and say "no I am Spartacus" etc. It has not happened, therefore happy change my name if it annoys you.
I do my best to attend all NRA meeting, although I missed the one at the town hall and the one prior to that. Brian made the point that the TCP meetings are open to all. As far as I am aware that is not the case. Oh, and nobody is getting excited about the bid. That is the problem. If it is going to go ahead, people need to be excited about it, rather than apathetic. A number of people on here are merely echoing the views of many business owners in town, and that is there appears to be no real plan for what the money would be used for (that isn't already provided) and that most of it will simply be eaten up by salaries and marketing.
That is fine if that is the stated intention, but the reason those around the edges of the BID are getting worried is that they are unlikely to see any real benefit.
Richard, I can see your point with regard to businesses on the fringes of the BID area, although the actual area as far as I am aware has not been finalised yet. The BID cannot cover every square inch of the town so some people will be dissapointed initially - but if the BID can deliever real improvements that attract more new customers and retain more of our current customers then everyone will benefit.
I for one hope that a good proportion of the income does go on marketing (including events) as Newbury needs to shout louder about the attractions of the town as opposed to the neighbouring competition.
Salaries and costs to administer the BID will have to be closely monitored by the BID committe as this is always a contentious area.
Richard, I can see your point with regard to businesses on the fringes of the BID area, although the actual area as far as I am aware has not been finalised yet. The BID cannot cover every square inch of the town so some people will be dissapointed initially - but if the BID can deliever real improvements that attract more new customers and retain more of our current customers then everyone will benefit.
I for one hope that a good proportion of the income does go on marketing (including events) as Newbury needs to shout louder about the attractions of the town as opposed to the neighbouring competition.
Salaries and costs to administer the BID will have to be closely monitored by the BID committe as this is always a contentious area.
Let's see what the BID team put forward, hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and save the situation. My own view is that if we are to have a bid, the zone should be the Kennet Centre, Market Place, Northbrook Street and Parkway only.
Let's see what the BID team put forward, hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and save the situation. My own view is that if we are to have a bid, the zone should be the Kennet Centre, Market Place, Northbrook Street and Parkway only.
So Cheap Street should be excluded! I thought you wanted to encourage people to use this area!
So Cheap Street should be excluded! I thought you wanted to encourage people to use this area!
Exactly. By taxing the businesses more, how does that keep them trading when they will see little or no additional benefits from the increased rates???
Exactly. By taxing the businesses more, how does that keep them trading when they will see little or no additional benefits from the increased rates???
It's not increased rates though - it is to market the town. Perhaps the marketing should suggest ways of avoiding Cheap Street!!
Alternatively they could contribute and advertise the fact that they are there - something that many visitors might not know.
Let's see what the BID team put forward, hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and save the situation. My own view is that if we are to have a bid, the zone should be the Kennet Centre, Market Place, Northbrook Street and Parkway only.
Make up your mind.
You are really just full of wind and piss really, aren't you? - but obviously like the sound of your own voice!!
It's not increased rates though - it is to market the town. Perhaps the marketing should suggest ways of avoiding Cheap Street!!
Alternatively they could contribute and advertise the fact that they are there - something that many visitors might not know.
It will be an increase in business rates, that is what the BID ultimately is. Yes, the businesses should advertise, but do you think ay generic adverts on TV / Radio / print about shopping in Newbury will ultimately lead to somebody shopping at Banjo Cycles for instance?
You are really just full of wind and piss really, aren't you? - but obviously like the sound of your own voice!!
Make my mind up between what? Have a look at the two quotes you put up, and tell me how they contradict each other? I've said all along that my concern is for the smaller, independent traders in areas of the proposed zone that are unlikely to see any benefit. If the BID team want to do something for the areas I did mention, fair play to them, but they will have to work a lot harder than they are now to convinvce people that it's worth it!!!
Why don't you have any concern for medium and large size traders?
Poor choice of words on my part. What I was getting at is those businesses who are based here (independents) are most likely to be affected by the levy. National chains will not go bust on the basis of an additional 1% levy in Newbury. But you are right, will the levy lead to an increase in the number of empty units in the town centre? It has in most other BID zones, which is why I said rioght at the start that unless there are some very clear benefits for those in the eventual BID zone, we could see businesses leave the town.
At least in the four areas I have mentioned, they are likely to see a result of the increased footfall. But that alone does not justify the levy. Even with a healthy high street over the past twelve months (footfall in comparison to other areas), companies like Ann Summers are still leaving town. Will the BID levy be a step to far for other national chains who have stores here that are struggling to break even?
Make my mind up between what? Have a look at the two quotes you put up, and tell me how they contradict each other? I've said all along that my concern is for the smaller, independent traders in areas of the proposed zone that are unlikely to see any benefit. If the BID team want to do something for the areas I did mention, fair play to them, but they will have to work a lot harder than they are now to convinvce people that it's worth it!!!
You wanted it open to all businesses - but now some shouldn't contribute - or parts of Newbury should be excluded.
Leave it to you and before long we will end up with a Parkway advertising committee.
If the bid is succeds the min is 1% but it can rise to 5%. So for Independents if they have a rates bill of £10k it could add another £500 per year, so it is worth watching and if you vote against the BID but lose you still pay.
So Cheap Street needs no improvement in your view?? I would have thought they could benefit more from revitalisation.
That's not what I'm saying. If the BID was going to advertise Cheap Street specifically or do something to help the traders in that street, they would be inclined to vote for it. But at present, there appears to be little or no value for them, so that's why I said they should be cut out. I've already said that the BID team still have time to resolve it, but they will have to work fast as confidence in that part of town and Bart Street suggests that they will all vote against.
One would have thought like User23 said, a rough plan would have been in place when approaching retailers, with the promise to incluse additional ideas that they came up with. To go in with an empty sheet of paper and give three examples that are already covered by existing rates doesn't inspire confidence.
So Cheap Street needs no improvement in your view?? I would have thought they could benefit more from revitalisation.
Loss of the car park accompanied by the extensive road closures to build the cinema has had a devastating effect on business in Cheap Street. Even now with the cinema open and roadworks completed, shoppers are not coming back to the area. Cinemagoers don't use the Cheap Street entrance, they park in the KC multi storey and walk through the centre.
Back in the late nineties Sainsbury's offered to build a pedestrian bridge to link their store across the A339 to the end of Carnegie Road. This would have provided extra footfall from shoppers going between Sainsbury's and the town centre. This money was grabbed by the Lib Dem cycling fanatics who wanted to provide the cycle route across the A339 at the roundabout. (Even though we had a perfectly adequate subway). The idea was that pedestrians would come along Kings Road West to get into town. The reality was that the pedestrians chose the more direct route alongside the telephone exchange.
These were the same Lib Dems who decided we didn't need a two way bridge from Park Way into the Wharf. (on the advice of the officers from West Berks). I attended the meetings prior to the construction of the Parkway Bridge and the WBC officers were insisting that a two way bridge would be 6 inches away from the Stone Building. My comment at the time was that we wanted a two way bridge, not a two lane dual carriageway.
One would have thought like User23 said, a rough plan would have been in place when approaching retailers, with the promise to incluse additional ideas that they came up with. To go in with an empty sheet of paper and give three examples that are already covered by existing rates doesn't inspire confidence.
I have mixed feelings on this.
It's not entirely fair for improvements to shopping to be paid for by non-retail businesses, just in the same way that it's not fair for taxpayers in Lambourn to pay for nice cobbled streets in Newbury. But on the other hand, it's empowering for businesses to get stuff done and not to whinge about WBC when customers go elsewhere (as it's often because they have a 'me too' business and don't evolve).
Also, there's an opportunity for the dead hand of WBC to be removed from decision-making. And it creates a more democratic replacement for the clubby TCP.
I don't have a problem with the BID taking on streetcleaning, Christmas lights etc...but on condition that my taxes are reduced accordingly.
And to answer the Labour Party, I DO expect a blank piece of paper. We've had 30 years of fait accompli in this town, so here's a chance for a system to provide transparency, accountability and direct democracy to do the things MOST people want, by ASKING them first etc.
But it will make goods and services MORE expensive in Newbury, and that is a dangerous game.
Can someone explain who the traders in Cheap st are? As far as I can tell there is a camera & a fancy dress shop. One of which is about to close.
Indeed, what were these businesses it had a "devastating effect on"?
There's a couple of take-away places, a church, some estate agents, Conservative Party HQ but bar The Dram Room which I think is only open by appointment I can't think of any retailers in Cheap Street.
Once my new phone turns up, I'll take a walk into town and make a list. There is the camera shop, dram room, fancy dress, dry cleaners, RSPCA, the bakery, the antique shop, there is something next to the antique shop too... I'm sure there is two or three more, but will get back to you.
All but the RSPCA are small, independent retailers I believe and most are already struggling to make ends meet.
Once my new phone turns up, I'll take a walk into town and make a list. There is the camera shop, dram room, fancy dress, dry cleaners, RSPCA, the bakery, the antique shop, there is something next to the antique shop too... I'm sure there is two or three more, but will get back to you.
All but the RSPCA are small, independent retailers I believe and most are already struggling to make ends meet.
There was a newsagent and push-bike shop there as well.
All I'm saying is that the meetings should be open to all who trade in the town centre. Are all of the members retailers Brian?
No far from it.
As Chairman of the NRA, I theoretically represent the retailers.
Liz Chandler who is the normal chairperson is a retailer. Jonathan Hopson is obviously a retailer and seems to speak on behalf of the larger retailers. Mag Williams attends, representing the shops in the Kennet Centre.
It is difficult to know who is elected, who is invited, who has made a financial contribution (and attends) and who just goes along. The meetings are normally well attended and informative. I certainly find the meetings very useful.
The TCP or Steering Group as it was originally has always been used to endorse the West Berkshire plans for Vision 2025.
The TCP or Steering Group as it was originally has always been used to endorse the West Berkshire plans for Vision 2025.
It seems seriously wrong to me that a special interest group is used to give the Vision credibility rather than the democratically elected town council.
Once my new phone turns up, I'll take a walk into town and make a list. There is the camera shop, dram room, fancy dress, dry cleaners, RSPCA, the bakery, the antique shop, there is something next to the antique shop too... I'm sure there is two or three more, but will get back to you.
All but the RSPCA are small, independent retailers I believe and most are already struggling to make ends meet.
Antique shop? There is a furniture store between the PO and the Diamond Tap (Hodgeson's) but I can't think of an antique shop. You missed the bathroom shop, shoe store, jewellers and dry cleaners.
Antique shop? There is a furniture store between the PO and the Diamond Tap (Hodgeson's) but I can't think of an antique shop. You missed the bathroom shop, shoe store, jewellers and dry cleaners.
Come on now - the bit of cheap st under the spotlight here is the bit everyone thinks of as Cheap st. It starts at the road junction where the dentists is....
Come on now - the bit of cheap st under the spotlight here is the bit everyone thinks of as Cheap st. It starts at the road junction where the dentists is....
Whatever retailer is or isn't in Cheap Street doesn't take away the confusion about the BID. I still don't understand how an organisation can spend money and employ people without defining its objectives (maybe they have and aren't letting anyone outside know). What benefit does the BID have and how will it be funded? If it is funded by a levy on businesses, they need to know the costs and benefits. If its funded by either council (West Berkshire I suspect) then this needs to be made clear to taxpayers and the benefits also made clear.
Whatever retailer is or isn't in Cheap Street doesn't take away the confusion about the BID. I still don't understand how an organisation can spend money and employ people without defining its objectives (maybe they have and aren't letting anyone outside know). What benefit does the BID have and how will it be funded? If it is funded by a levy on businesses, they need to know the costs and benefits. If its funded by either council (West Berkshire I suspect) then this needs to be made clear to taxpayers and the benefits also made clear.
I agree. It seems to raise more questions that it asks.
What are the key improvements that the BID aims to achieve? Where's the project plan, is this available to businesses or us punters? Is the BID an event? If not why is the Newbury Events Manager involved? Who's footing the bill for this "YES campaign" and is there a "NO campaign" too? If this is being paid for by the taxpayer will we have a say too?
Come on now - the bit of cheap st under the spotlight here is the bit everyone thinks of as Cheap st. It starts at the road junction where the dentists is....
That is perhaps how you would like to see it to support your argument, but many businesses in close proximity were affected by the cinema (loss of car park) and other works in town.
It is difficult to know who is elected, who is invited, who has made a financial contribution (and attends) and who just goes along. The meetings are normally well attended and informative. I certainly find the meetings very useful.
If the composition of the TCP is so confused, under what authority are decisions made? Does everyone attending get a vote? How for example was the decision to start/support the BID made?
I find the whole organisation difficult to understand as (in the same way the BID has been created) there seems to be little transparency in some very far reaching decisions. Is anyone willing to share any real answers on this?
List as promised (from Junction to Stations as Lovejoy requested):
Pageant, T4 Cameras, Dram Room, Dry Cleaners, Peter Earthy Jewellery, Bravo, RSPCA, Bloody Mary tatoos, Empire Bakery, Super Star Hair, Harry's Hair, Natural Therapy, Dentist, Mills & Bann solicitor and then the takeaways / pubs etc: Con Club, King Charles, Indian Lounge, Nawab, The Plaice, Lucky's, Prezzo, Mr India, Lotus Garden, Oitijjo and Chilli's.
I think the purpose of this list was to prove that retail was worth protecting in Cheap Street itself. By my counting, 12 are classed as retailers not including the takeaways and other services.
List as promised (from Junction to Stations as Lovejoy requested):
Pageant, T4 Cameras, Dram Room, Dry Cleaners, Peter Earthy Jewellery, Bravo, RSPCA, Bloody Mary tatoos, Empire Bakery, Super Star Hair, Harry's Hair, Natural Therapy, Dentist, Mills & Bann solicitor and then the takeaways / pubs etc: Con Club, King Charles, Indian Lounge, Nawab, The Plaice, Lucky's, Prezzo, Mr India, Lotus Garden, Oitijjo and Chilli's.
I think the purpose of this list was to prove that retail was worth protecting in Cheap Street itself. By my counting, 12 are classed as retailers not including the takeaways and other services.
None of the above are retail shops that people would browse in or buy from on a whim. Footfall in this area is mainly commuter (7.00am - 8.30 and 5.00-6.30pm) when the majority of these shops are closed. That is not to say they are not worth saving, but increased footfall does not necessarily mean increased trade.
Some of these aren't in Cheap Street and isn't the Dram Room only open by appointment?
Walking from the station to the junction bit of Cheap Street with the insurance shop on the corner opposite the cinema, yes it is. I went and made the list today.
I agree. It seems to raise more questions that it asks.
What are the key improvements that the BID aims to achieve? Where's the project plan, is this available to businesses or us punters? Is the BID an event? If not why is the Newbury Events Manager involved? Who's footing the bill for this "YES campaign" and is there a "NO campaign" too? If this is being paid for by the taxpayer will we have a say too?
You may remember the Town Centre Partnership used to beg for funds to pay for the Town Centre Manager. Anyone waving £200 around got a place at the table, and the TCP was repeatedly bankrolled by WBC when the finances got tight. Last year, the Town Centre Partnership was turned into a not-for-profit social enterprise (Community Interest Company), which means they don't have to provide annual accounts to ThatCompanies House. The directors of the TCP are (from memory) Patrick Griffin (architect), Tom Rossiter (lawyer), Malcolm Bull (developer), and Liz Chandler (retailer).
The TCP is driving and funding the BID, so it's fair to say this is the 'yes' camp (perhaps admin can tell us if WBC are throwing some our taxes at it too).
In the 'no' corner is Richard Garvie, Brianb, and a lot of non-retailers.
You may remember the Town Centre Partnership used to beg for funds to pay for the Town Centre Manager. Anyone waving £200 around got a place at the table, and the TCP was repeatedly bankrolled by WBC when the finances got tight. Last year, the Town Centre Partnership was turned into a not-for-profit social enterprise (Community Interest Company), which means they don't have to provide annual accounts to ThatCompanies House. The directors of the TCP are (from memory) Patrick Griffin (architect), Tom Rossiter (lawyer), Malcolm Bull (developer), and Liz Chandler (retailer).
The TCP is driving and funding the BID, so it's fair to say this is the 'yes' camp (perhaps admin can tell us if WBC are throwing some our taxes at it too).
In the 'no' corner is Richard Garvie, Brianb, and a lot of non-retailers.
Interesting to see that the position of Newbury Events Manager now includes promoting the "Yes" agenda perhaps at the expense of the interests of the whole town.
Can anyone remember the last event organised by the TCP? Has there been one this year?
In the 'no' corner is Richard Garvie, Brianb, and a lot of non-retailers.
I'm not quite sure why the vote for a BID in Newbury has anything to do with the Labour party, Richard Garvie or non-retailers. Perhaps you could advise.
I'm not quite sure why the vote for a BID in Newbury has anything to do with the Labour party, Richard Garvie or non-retailers. Perhaps you could advise.
Not sure about the Labour Party but if (and I don't know if this is the case) West Berkshire Council is paying for this, then it has a lot to do with non-retailers. We currently have a situation where cuts are being made and I would be less than happy to hear that money is going into a venture that has no defined objectives and no disclosed benefit to the town.
BIDs are often successful at attracting funding in addition to the BID levy. They are particularly attractive to public sector grant making bodies (such as Regional Development Agencies) due to the private sector match-funding available through the BID levy. Local authorities, property owners, and businesses outside the BID area have all provided additional income for BIDs.
BIDs enter into baseline agreements with the local authority and other service providers which guarantee the level of service provision in the area. These ensure that any services the BID provides are truly additional.
An Operating Agreement is also entered into between a BID and their local authority governing how the BID levy monies are collected and administered and passed over to the BID.
List as promised (from Junction to Stations as Lovejoy requested):
Pageant, T4 Cameras, Dram Room, Dry Cleaners, Peter Earthy Jewellery, Bravo, RSPCA, Bloody Mary tatoos, Empire Bakery, Super Star Hair, Harry's Hair, Natural Therapy, Dentist, Mills & Bann solicitor and then the takeaways / pubs etc: Con Club, King Charles, Indian Lounge, Nawab, The Plaice, Lucky's, Prezzo, Mr India, Lotus Garden, Oitijjo and Chilli's.
I think the purpose of this list was to prove that retail was worth protecting in Cheap Street itself. By my counting, 12 are classed as retailers not including the takeaways and other services.
LOL, including the Con Club!
I cannot realy remember the last time I walked down a street & suddenly was induced to enter a solicitors by the brilliance of their window display to sign up for legal procedures I did not need.....
I cannot realy remember the last time I walked down a street & suddenly was induced to enter a solicitors by the brilliance of their window display to sign up for legal procedures I did not need.....
Wherever you trade these days, a car park within reasonable distance is paramount. Construction of the cinema deprived this area of the town's second most popular car park (The most popular at the time was the M & S car park). The lack of sensible parking (you can't park on the street because of the aggressive attitude of the Green Meanies) is affecting all businesses including solicitors.
The Con Club has its own private car park, although I do believe that this is under threat from inclusion within the Market Street development proposal. (The Market Street development was planned under a Lib Dem administration)
I'm pretty sure you can park on the street for a limited time too for free, so those wishing to blame the poor performance of their business will have to think of a new excuse other than lack of parking given this area of the town actually has the most free parking of all.
I'm pretty sure you can park on the street for a limited time too for free, so those wishing to blame the poor performance of their business will have to think of a new excuse other than lack of parking given this area of the town actually has the most free parking of all.
User23 you always have what you consider to be the answer to anything logical put forward on this forum. There are two words which I would ask you to consider "convenience" and "awareness". There is no "convenient" car parking in this area that potential shoppers are "aware" of.
"I couldn't stop to buy a couple of cakes because all of the on street parking was taken and your little car park down the road doesn't exist any more".
"Well were you not aware that you can park in Sainsbury,s for up to 3 hours. You go back onto the dual carrigeway down to the roundabout take the 4th exit follow the road along and turn right at the traffic lights. Then follow the signs into Sainsbury's. Park your car and then WALK out onto King's Road, cross the A339 then follow Kings Road West which will bring you back onto Cheap Street. This will only take you an extra 20 minutes at the most. Although you would be better off to pop into Sainsbury's and buy your cakes and do the rest of your shopping at the same time".
User23 you have the same arrogant attitude that pervades the offices of your employers and why so many ridiculous decisions have been taken in this town over the last few years.
Please ring the new BID manager on 01635 760309 his name is Russell Downing. He will confirm that without exception, every business in Cheap Street is blaming lack of convenient parking for the decline of this area of town.
BIDs are often successful at attracting funding in addition to the BID levy. They are particularly attractive to public sector grant making bodies (such as Regional Development Agencies) due to the private sector match-funding available through the BID levy. Local authorities, property owners, and businesses outside the BID area have all provided additional income for BIDs.
BIDs enter into baseline agreements with the local authority and other service providers which guarantee the level of service provision in the area. These ensure that any services the BID provides are truly additional.
An Operating Agreement is also entered into between a BID and their local authority governing how the BID levy monies are collected and administered and passed over to the BID.
Thanks. That's useful for seeing what a BID is but I still don't understand what the organisers in Newbury intend to do with the funds they collect. What are the additional services? What value will they have to the town and who will they benefit most? This does seem fundamental to the aims of the BID and surely there must be something in Newbury that indicates what this is, especially as money has already been spent for the BID. Any idea where this is stated?
Thanks. That's useful for seeing what a BID is but I still don't understand what the organisers in Newbury intend to do with the funds they collect. What are the additional services? What value will they have to the town and who will they benefit most? This does seem fundamental to the aims of the BID and surely there must be something in Newbury that indicates what this is, especially as money has already been spent for the BID. Any idea where this is stated?
I don't think that this is in the public domain, although it should be. I am aware of the figures and will check to find out whether I am at liberty to reveal them. All members of the TCP have agreed that affairs of the meeting are confidential until the "approved" minutes are published.
There are definitely things discussed at TCP meetings where it would be inappropriate for press to be present.
User23 you always have what you consider to be the answer to anything logical put forward on this forum. There are two words which I would ask you to consider "convenience" and "awareness". There is no "convenient" car parking in this area that potential shoppers are "aware" of.
"I couldn't stop to buy a couple of cakes because all of the on street parking was taken and your little car park down the road doesn't exist any more".
"Well were you not aware that you can park in Sainsbury,s for up to 3 hours. You go back onto the dual carrigeway down to the roundabout take the 4th exit follow the road along and turn right at the traffic lights. Then follow the signs into Sainsbury's. Park your car and then WALK out onto King's Road, cross the A339 then follow Kings Road West which will bring you back onto Cheap Street. This will only take you an extra 20 minutes at the most. Although you would be better off to pop into Sainsbury's and buy your cakes and do the rest of your shopping at the same time".
User23 you have the same arrogant attitude that pervades the offices of your employers and why so many ridiculous decisions have been taken in this town over the last few years.
Please ring the new BID manager on 01635 760309 his name is Russell Downing. He will confirm that without exception, every business in Cheap Street is blaming lack of convenient parking for the decline of this area of town.
It seems this area is fairly well served for car parking. You have free on street parking, a small free car park at the rear of the cake shop, a car park at the side if the bus station, the con club car park, Kennet Centre and the station car park. You may not have been able to find a free on street space when you were there, but where can you guarantee a public highway space? How does the cake shop in Bartholomew Street or the one at the Clock Tower fare in comparison? Both of these appear to have far less parking opportunities than the Cheap Street area.
User23 you always have what you consider to be the answer to anything logical put forward on this forum. There are two words which I would ask you to consider "convenience" and "awareness". There is no "convenient" car parking in this area that potential shoppers are "aware" of.
"I couldn't stop to buy a couple of cakes because all of the on street parking was taken and your little car park down the road doesn't exist any more".
"Well were you not aware that you can park in Sainsbury,s for up to 3 hours. You go back onto the dual carrigeway down to the roundabout take the 4th exit follow the road along and turn right at the traffic lights. Then follow the signs into Sainsbury's. Park your car and then WALK out onto King's Road, cross the A339 then follow Kings Road West which will bring you back onto Cheap Street. This will only take you an extra 20 minutes at the most. Although you would be better off to pop into Sainsbury's and buy your cakes and do the rest of your shopping at the same time".
User23 you have the same arrogant attitude that pervades the offices of your employers and why so many ridiculous decisions have been taken in this town over the last few years.
No need to get so personal. All I'm is saying is there's plenty of free parking nearby so this is not an excuse anyone can use.
Google Maps reckons it's three minutes from Sainsburys to Prezzo on foot and this is the long route, not cutting through Kings Road West
though I'd actually say at least five. There's also free parking on Cheap Street itself and as I said previously, this area has the most free parking in the whole town which knocks the theory that parking charges should be cheaper to encourage business if as you say retailers in this area are struggling.
Perhaps this forum should be used to raise awareness of free parking if shoppers knowing that it exists is problem and not talk the town down which harms local retailers. I'm sure some of them must despair reading the exaggerations posted on here by a few, that undoubtedly must hit them in the pocket.
Back on topic, an idea for the BID money is that it could be used to start privately run car parks for use by the public, a number of which have already opened in town.
Wherever you trade these days, a car park within reasonable distance is paramount. Construction of the cinema deprived this area of the town's second most popular car park (The most popular at the time was the M & S car park). The lack of sensible parking (you can't park on the street because of the aggressive attitude of the Green Meanies) is affecting all businesses including solicitors.
The Con Club has its own private car park, although I do believe that this is under threat from inclusion within the Market Street development proposal. (The Market Street development was planned under a Lib Dem administration)
Can you tell me where the car park within reasonable distance of Lloyds Bank is. That area of town seems rather busy to me every day of the week.
Actually, you're not right, the request was for a car park close to Lloyds which is on the water brridge and Cheap Street parking is usually not available anyway.
Actually, you're not right, the request was for a car park close to Lloyds which is on the water brridge and Cheap Street parking is usually not available anyway.
I think User was infering that it was as covenient to park at Iceland ot visit Cheap St as it was Lloyds.
Showing that he still does not understand the real concept of "passing trade"
Actually, you're not right, the request was for a car park close to Lloyds which is on the water brridge and Cheap Street parking is usually not available anyway.
As I said, the "car park close to Lloyds" is just as close to Cheap Street as it is Bridge Street.
Lloyds Bank is on Bridge Street, just in case you didn't know.
BIDs are often successful at attracting funding in addition to the BID levy. They are particularly attractive to public sector grant making bodies (such as Regional Development Agencies) due to the private sector match-funding available through the BID levy. Local authorities, property owners, and businesses outside the BID area have all provided additional income for BIDs.
BIDs enter into baseline agreements with the local authority and other service providers which guarantee the level of service provision in the area. These ensure that any services the BID provides are truly additional.
An Operating Agreement is also entered into between a BID and their local authority governing how the BID levy monies are collected and administered and passed over to the BID.
We've heard all this before though. What retailers want to know is what will the additional rates levy pay for? The three examples given so far are all council provided services which in reality should be met by the current rates!!!
I'm not quite sure why the vote for a BID in Newbury has anything to do with the Labour party, Richard Garvie or non-retailers. Perhaps you could advise.
Who said it has anything to do with Labour? Is it just retailers who pay the levy Brian, or is it all businesses?
I don't think that this is in the public domain, although it should be. I am aware of the figures and will check to find out whether I am at liberty to reveal them. All members of the TCP have agreed that affairs of the meeting are confidential until the "approved" minutes are published.
There are definitely things discussed at TCP meetings where it would be inappropriate for press to be present.
I know it's not your fault Brian, but as a community interest company, should the discussions that are held at these meetings not be public? I go back to what the other Brian said earlier, he reckons the meetings are open to anyone who wishes to attend. This just backs up what others have said about meetings being restricted to a select through, no elections, no chance of others who have an interest in the town centre attending, just smacks a bit of arrogance.
I'm not quite sure why the vote for a BID in Newbury has anything to do with the Labour party, Richard Garvie or non-retailers. Perhaps you could advise.
If you pay business rates within the bid area, you will be obliged to pay the bid levy. So even if you run an office selling ice cubes to eskimos, and your office falls within the bid area you will be required to pay (Unless your premises are too small to qualify).
This means that accountants, solicitors, employment agencies etc. will all be required to pay.
I know it's not your fault Brian, but as a community interest company, should the discussions that are held at these meetings not be public? I go back to what the other Brian said earlier, he reckons the meetings are open to anyone who wishes to attend. This just backs up what others have said about meetings being restricted to a select through, no elections, no chance of others who have an interest in the town centre attending, just smacks a bit of arrogance.
I agree. It seems to raise more questions that it asks.
What are the key improvements that the BID aims to achieve? Where's the project plan, is this available to businesses or us punters? Is the BID an event? If not why is the Newbury Events Manager involved? Who's footing the bill for this "YES campaign" and is there a "NO campaign" too? If this is being paid for by the taxpayer will we have a say too?
The plan will be developed over the coming months and will be put to the vote to every business rate payer in the BID area. There may be a 'No' campaign if businesses do not agree with the BID proposals. The money raised will be from businesses and spent on their behalf. The Events Manager is helping out with the whole project. As has been explained before, the taxpayer is funding the cost of preparing the BID; if the BID is successful then there will be less taxpayers money used to fund town centre improvements, the Town Centre Partnership, etc which will be a cost SAVING to the taxpayer.
I would have thought that most people would support the idea of businesses raising money to improve the town.
The plan will be developed over the coming months and will be put to the vote to every business rate payer in the BID area. There may be a 'No' campaign if businesses do not agree with the BID proposals. The money raised will be from businesses and spent on their behalf. The Events Manager is helping out with the whole project. As has been explained before, the taxpayer is funding the cost of preparing the BID; if the BID is successful then there will be less taxpayers money used to fund town centre improvements, the Town Centre Partnership, etc which will be a cost SAVING to the taxpayer.
I would have thought that most people would support the idea of businesses raising money to improve the town.
The problem with all these things that the TCP seems to be involved in is the lack of any obvious openness.
Where was it explained before that the taxpayer is funding the cost of preparing the BID? From what is said here, the discussions were/are open to the public. Where was this made clear?
If there was a clearly stated case of what the TCP and West Berks is up to before money had been spent then many of the questions that are now being asked would be redundant.
Maybe there is a chance here to properly understand wht its all about and how its being funded?
I welcome the chance to discuss the BID openly as there is nothing to hide. There are over 100 BIDS in England currently operating and almost all have had seed funding from local authorities as they all see that over the life of each BID the taxpayer saves money.
In fairness to Newbury TCP and TCPs all over the Country it is difficult to communicate to everyone as newsletters, websites, events etc are an expense. As the total funding of these groups is generally low monies need to be spent on doing something (events, street improvements etc) rather than on communication; otherwise all the funds are spent on communication, with nothing to communicate about!
The website appears to publish the minutes, and as far as I know nobody has ever been refused entry to a meeting. Should a BID be successful then the constitution of the Committee and an open selection / election process may well end the discussion on openess. As businesses would be contributing financially I would expect that they would be far more interested in getting involved than at present.
I welcome the chance to discuss the BID openly as there is nothing to hide. There are over 100 BIDS in England currently operating and almost all have had seed funding from local authorities as they all see that over the life of each BID the taxpayer saves money..
But isn't the bid about improving the town, providing services in addition to those offered by the Local Authority? I thought the money would be spent on services not already provided by our business rates???
In fairness to Newbury TCP and TCPs all over the Country it is difficult to communicate to everyone as newsletters, websites, events etc are an expense. As the total funding of these groups is generally low monies need to be spent on doing something (events, street improvements etc) rather than on communication; otherwise all the funds are spent on communication, with nothing to communicate about!.
Not true. A lot of TCP's are fully elected each year, publish newsletters every month, fully document the minutes of every meeting and allow members of the public and press to attend. My main concern though is that retailers in Newbury are not allowed to attend should they so wish. Why is the council funding an organisation that appears to be exclusive?
The website appears to publish the minutes, and as far as I know nobody has ever been refused entry to a meeting. Should a BID be successful then the constitution of the Committee and an open selection / election process may well end the discussion on openess. As businesses would be contributing financially I would expect that they would be far more interested in getting involved than at present.
The website does publish minutes sporadically, but are they fully accurate? As for people not being turned away, I know of a few who have told me they are not allowed to attend. I might email the TCP to request the right to attend, just to see what response I get. What concerns me is that it will only be transparent after the BID is decided using your methology. I don't want to appear negative, but it just seems that the BID is being made up as it goes along and that the TCP is an exclusive club for a very select group of people. It's being funded by tax and rate payers via the strategic partnership funding, yet only 20 people or so are privvy to discussions. Is that fair and transparent?
But isn't the bid about improving the town, providing services in addition to those offered by the Local Authority? I thought the money would be spent on services not already provided by our business rates???
This is the trouble with not even setting a basic framework to define some basic goals of the project. We don't even know whether these are extra services or to replace existing ones.
Just out of interest, hypothetically let's say my business trades solely on the Internet but falls within the BID area. How would the BID benefit me?
The website does publish minutes sporadically, but are they fully accurate? As for people not being turned away, I know of a few who have told me they are not allowed to attend. I might email the TCP to request the right to attend, just to see what response I get. What concerns me is that it will only be transparent after the BID is decided using your methology. I don't want to appear negative, but it just seems that the BID is being made up as it goes along and that the TCP is an exclusive club for a very select group of people. It's being funded by tax and rate payers via the strategic partnership funding, yet only 20 people or so are privvy to discussions. Is that fair and transparent?
You do talk things up Richard. Are you a generator of urban myths or do you really know for a fact that people have been turned away. You do appear negative as you are continually questioning the whole process and at the same time, slipping in little suggestions which a lot of the time do not have basis in fact. You are now making a backhanded suggestion that the minutes are not accurate. Plant a seed and it will grow into a mighty oak. The people who are involved with the TCP give up time to participate with a view to trying to make Newbury a better place to shop in than our surrounding towns. That works both ways, for the retailers and for the shoppers. Why email the TCP, you will find that Liz is a very personable lady and you don't need to be frightened of her. Pop in, buy a pot of Cold Ash honey and have a chat you might then get the answers that you want and can come back with the facts.
I believe that some while ago, the TCP were stitched up by WBC when they were allowed to see the Pavilion plans but sworn to secrecy. After that, WBC came across with the general impression that the TCP were putting forward the plans. Took a while to get that one sorted.
This is the trouble with not even setting a basic framework to define some basic goals of the project. We don't even know whether these are extra services or to replace existing ones.
Just out of interest, hypothetically let's say my business trades solely on the Internet but falls within the BID area. How would the BID benefit me?
As for people not being turned away, I know of a few who have told me they are not allowed to attend. I might email the TCP to request the right to attend, just to see what response I get. ........
I understood that they invited people that could add value to the team... so you will no doubt be refused!
I understood that they invited people that could add value to the team... so you will no doubt be refused!
That's how I understand it. It's invited people only. Yet Brian (without the B) thinks I'm spreading an urban myth!! It's not so much that I want to attend, but I know of a few retailers and property owners who are not allowed to attend so if it is open to all as Brian suggests, maybe I would be allowed to attend as would the others and members of the local media?
Look, I've said that my main concern about the BID is that south of the Kennet Centre, there will be very little benefit from being within the BID. Another concern is that businesses are now being quoted a 1% figure and a "maximum" figure of 5%, so is the figure set at 1% as has been said in the past or is that yet to be decided also? Another concern is that the services the BID to contribute to will be existing services that should be covered from existing business rates. The three examples of services given by the BID team are all existing services.
If the TCP want the BID to cover the main shopping area, I don't see an issue providing that they show how it will benefit the traders. You would have thought by now that this would be on their website, so that traders and businesses could view it. Still, there is nothing.
Brian, I work as a regeneration consultant so I'm sure I could provide some much needed input towards the the town centre and the BID proposal if required. I have seen many examples of the BID in practice, and very few are actually beneficial. Some are set up to provide marketing war chests, some are simply about providing the founder with a buig pay check. Very few are actually helpful for those on the edges of what could be described as primary shopping areas in each BID area. I'm more than happy to organise trips to Sleaford, Boston, Coventry, Rugby and other places like that so you can see what the BID has done (or not done) in those areas.
User23: If your office is based in the BID area, you would have to pay the levy regardess of the service you provide.
Hmmm....all this makes me think of Sepp Blatter refusing to budge!
Moving on though...... Why are the traders allowing businesses NOT trading in the town centre to decide a town centre ONLY business tax? Sainsburys for example will NOT pay into the BID as the zone currently stands, and you have to wonder if they used their position as a sponsor and attendee of the TCP to exclude themselves. Newbury Racecourse will not pay the new tax, but get a say on this BEFORE say the Queens Hotel.
The TCP need to get their house in order or they will taint the BID project.
I have read with interest the recent post regarding the Newbury BID, and if possible would like to dispel many of the misunderstandings and in some cases wrong facts being quoted. The BID was proposed by the TCP in late autumn of last year, this is very typical of BIDs up and down the UK, to be proposed by TCP's, CIC's or a group of like minded businesses. The BID has been funded in two parts, part by the tax payer and part by private businesses via voluntary contributions to the development of the BID. The BID is an independent organisation, it is not the TCP or TCC or WBC.
The BID steering group is made up of a cross section of volunteers who have expressed a keen interest in being involved with the development of the BID, as they see it as a way to help themselves improve their businesses and Newbury as a whole, four new people who have recently joined the steering group share that view, Paul Redman, Kitchenmonger, Wendy Seddon, The Schoolwear company, Neil Carter, Parkway manager and Lind Thomas, Lloyds TSB.
The aim of the Newbury BID is to simply provide a more vibrant, clean and safe place to live, work and do business, whilst I appreciate this is a very broad brush approach, we do have to have a target to work towards. As has happened in many cases in the past in Newbury, the BID team could have come along with pre conceived ideas and dictated what the money was going to be spent on based on what we think it needs, however as Brian B quite rightly points out this is how a BID differs. It is not a case of being clueless and lacking ideas, in fact many of the things we anticipated coming out of the consultation simply haven't, it is a case of actually asking each business what they want and need to improve their business, and until we get feedback from all concerned we cant possible put forward any costed projects, we would be back to guessing or what we think we need. This is a real chance for businesses to help themselves.
Below is a list of the feedback from the early consultation;
1, Car parking - cost, location & spaces 2, Signage - pedestrian - directional & Information and Vehicular movement in/out of town and car parks 3, Marketing - to increase footfall 4, Empty shops - attracting new destination shopping 5, Returning to the market town feel 6, Chuggers 7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets 8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower 9, Recycling of trade waist 10, Security
It is very hard to argue with this list as it is genuine feedback from the retailers, some I agree should be dealt with by WBC, and this is why it is vital we have the base line agreements in place to ensure that anything we do is in addition. Once the baseline agreements are finalised I will publish on the website for all to see. This is again where the BID comes into play, having a collective voice to lobby WBC and affect real change.
Like Richard has quoted a number of BIDs, he perceives to be not successful, we could also list many that are, and in fact have turned round town centres that were quickly going into decline, but rather than take my word for it or for that matter Richards, I would urge you to look at, http://www.britishbids.info/ contact some of the businesses in those areas and make up your minds from facts. rather than myth.
The levy that can be applied is from 1-5%, however as in the majority of the cases we are proposing a 1% levy for Newbury. We are currently working on a voting system that will be added to the web site, so following the feedback we will be able to propose projects that have real costings, again this will be down to the businesses, if they decide they want more projects then it may be that the levy is 1.5% to cover them, but I would stress this is all your decision as a business in the BID area
We are looking to have a draft business plan by late autumn which will outline the proposed projects that the BID will cover, however this can, and must, only be done once we have every body's feedback.
Richard, it would appear that you have much to offer and contribute, and would welcome the opportunity of working with you to improve Newbury in what ever form that takes, as I am sure we all agree, that is the end goal. My contact details are on the web site, we also run an open surgery every Thursday from 9am to 12pm at our offices at Broadway house.
I will endeavour to keep as much information on the website as possible in a timely fashion, however please don't use this forum to simply rubbish the BID please come and talk to me so we can work together to make improvements for Newbury, If you don't have your say or input now, please don't complain about the outcomes. If you require any more information regarding the BID or simply want to have your say, please do contact me.
I don't understand how the BID can be used to improve car parking.
Car parking in Newbury is crap. It is overpriced (for what Newbury currently offers) It is inconvenient, all the car parks are in the wrong place. Entries/exits are badly designed, particularly in the Wharf.
The car parking is provided by West Berks Council and appears to be heavily subsidised by council tax coz nobody is shopping in Newbury these days.
Is the BID going to make a contribution to subsidise car parking? If it is then count me out.
Thanks for the detailed reply Newbury BID. I don't mean to sound negative, and I actually think the BID could be good if restricted to the main shopping area and the aims are productive. All I would say is that for every ten BID schemes I have looked at, you may get one good one (hopefully that will be Newbury - if it's approved). Of the list you put up, here are my observations:
1, Car parking - cost, location & spaces
This is the responsibility of the council, and what should really happen is for the urban village to be scrapped with substantial car parking put in at the station. I'm sure people appreciate the BID even looking at parking, but isn't this covered by business rates and / or council tax?
2, Signage - pedestrian - directional & Information and Vehicular movement in/out of town and car parks
Once again, this is something the council should already be doing. They are happy to put up expensive signage for cyclists, why not everything else?
3, Marketing - to increase footfall
This I do agree with. As long as it was spent in the correct way, this is the most important benefit a BID can bring.
4, Empty shops - attracting new destination shopping
Not heard this mentioned before in Newbury, but agree that would be an effective use of money. One would have though building owners would be open to a collective meeting to ensure rent prices remain competetive in town but attractive enough to bring new traders in, doesn't neccessarily need much money but it's good to know you are thinking along those lines.
5, Returning to the market town feel
I don't think we will ever get that back. What we should do now is concentrate on what Newbury is and create our own identity.
6, Chuggers
Can we hire snipers? (just kidding on that one)
7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets
Agreed that we should be looking at those improvements, but first we need to protect the units as retail / commercial rather than allowing change of use to residential.
8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower
I don't think we need a second tree, but certainly the lights could be run cheaper than at present and extended to cover the streets you mention. I still think that these should be funded in part by the council, unless we get a reduction on business rates / council tax!!!
9, Recycling of trade waste
Good idea, cost of waste disposal is already quite pricey. What would the BID do to tackle this?
10, Security
Absolutely, we need more PCSO's and CCTV cameras (Cheap Street, Bart Street North, end of Craven Road) but once again, CCTV should be provided from the already expensive rates.
1, Car parking - cost, location & spaces 2, Signage - pedestrian - directional & Information and Vehicular movement in/out of town and car parks 3, Marketing - to increase footfall 4, Empty shops - attracting new destination shopping 5, Returning to the market town feel 6, Chuggers 7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets 8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower 9, Recycling of trade waist 10, Security
Great to have the BID manager shedding some light on the matter.
As all politicians do, they seize on consultation responses to find someone to blame, which won't resolve the many currently intractable situations outlined above.
If we're honest we can't undo most of the above, no matter how much money is thrown at it, due to rampant supermarket expansion.
Sainsburys said when they expanded their store that they expected 50% of new trade to come at the expense of town centre businesses vs 5% from other supermarkets.
Since 2005, we've had 1 new Tesco Express, 1 Tesco expansion, 1 Sainsburys expansion, 1 new Waitrose, 2 new M&S Food, and an Aldi (on the way). Add up all that money disappearing from the town centre to edge of town sites. It's not free market, it's market failure.
So no wonder our town shop managers are telling you all this. But the good news is it's all easily dealt with.
1, Car parking - a google map showing all free parking spots. 2, Signage - all signs to point to A339 as there's no other way across town. (You can order a job lot) 3, Marketing - "Turn around, we've got a Waterstones you know" 4, Empty shops - turn the Kennet Centre into the Empty Shop shop. 5, Returning to the market town feel - fancy dress Friday. Everyone dresses like they're on Victorian Farm. Green meanies in the stocks so we can park our horse n cart right outside Camps. 6, Chuggers - organise flashmob counter-chugging 7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets - you're just 2 minutes to Waitrose. 8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower 9, Recycling of trade waist (sic) - build a large incinerator in Chieveley 10, Security - scrap CCTV and spend it on training a town militia
There are already at least four privately run car parks open to the public on a daily basis in Newbury.
Returning to the market town feel is an interesting one. As Muddler has already intimated, perhaps anyone who wishes this could shut off the electricity to their premises and insist everyone pay them in Groats.
As a shopper I'd like to see business people with original ideas opening shops selling products unique to this area, we already have a few, can the BID arrange to get a few of these in please. Before anyone says it, they can live side by side with national chain-stores as it seems to work well in other towns.
I don't understand how the BID can be used to improve car parking.....
One area would be like a town where I used to live which funded free parking for the first 30 minutes or a refund of more money when a purchase was made. In this instance it was traders rather than a bid - but I am sure that could be applied.
As a shopper I'd like to see business people with original ideas opening shops selling products unique to this area, we already have a few, can the BID arrange to get a few of these in please. Before anyone says it, they can live side by side with national chain-stores as it seems to work well in other towns.
Me too. Hiring a shop ain't easy though. 3yrs minimum lease with 1 year break clause. 3 months rent deposit and 3 months upfront if you're a new business. The Kennet Centre is brilliant place to give something a go, on much more flexible terms than the above.
Too much uncertainty though. Park Way redirecting footfall, a new Vision on the way, wobbly economy, bank lending rates, credit insurance, massive rent rises....all these things would come before car parking if I was a retailer.
There are already at least four privately run car parks open to the public on a daily basis in Newbury.
Returning to the market town feel is an interesting one. As Muddler has already intimated, perhaps anyone who wishes this could shut off the electricity to their premises and insist everyone pay them in Groats.
As a shopper I'd like to see business people with original ideas opening shops selling products unique to this area, we already have a few, can the BID arrange to get a few of these in please. Before anyone says it, they can live side by side with national chain-stores as it seems to work well in other towns.
Take a leaf out of your own book and open a shop yourself!
The problem with taking a lease on a shop is the commitment in Newbury where shoppers are scarcer than they used to be and where casual shoppers have all but disappeared. Look at the independent shops that have come and gone in the last 3 or 4 years. Many had unique selling points but not enough custom to keep going. I wouldn't look at opening an independent shop in Newbury and I'm sure the BID isn't going to invest the several thousand pounds needed to start and keep shop like this going. The value of a market is that it is cheaper and there is a limited investment from the traders. The problem is that ther is no commitment to change the market with the times. Nor is there proper support from either council to support it properly or make it an attraction. A market doesn't have to sell the standard food items. It can also sell more interesting and different goods. Newbury Market was going in this direction but seems to have now lost the these traders.
I'm not sure what to call it but in the past, user has been very anti shopkeepers, suggesting that they were fleecing the public by selling things. Why the change of heart.
My view is the town should live or die by it's own volition. Public money should NOT be footing bills of millions of pounds to make the road in the town centre look nice (for example).
My view is the town should live or die by it's own volition. The public money should NOT be footing bills of millions of pounds to make the road in the town centre look nice (for example).
If you are saying that money to make things look better shouldn't be spent on the infrastructure, then I agree. Should the Newbury Vision also have been funded by the taxpayer? Does this mean that the BID is a good idea?
I'm not sure what to call it but in the past, user has been very anti shopkeepers, suggesting that they were fleecing the public by selling things. Why the change of heart.
Not exactly true that, is it brian?
When someone suggested they were "entitled" to make a living from shopkeeping I replied that no one should open a shop and expect customers to turn up without putting some hard work. I'm sure most shopkeepers do put in the hard work needed to make their business a success.
When someone suggested they were "entitled" to make a living from shopkeeping I replied that no one should open a shop and expect customers to turn up without putting some hard work. I'm sure most shopkeepers do put in the hard work needed to make their business a success.
You see it one way, I see it as another. Somewhere in the middle perhaps. You have to believe that if some person is prepared to invest what might be their life savings in rent, rates and setting up costs, they are entitled to take a profit from their endeavours and are unlikely to sit back and expect footfall without some marketing effort. Perhaps supporting a BID might be a catalyst to success. Who knows. You go to work and earn a living based on your endeavours at college/university or hands on training on the back of your employer/rate payers as the case may be and the same applies to retailers who can expect a return from their customers for their investment, sleepless nights and the continual harassment from Health and safety, and the myriad of WBC rules and regulations. If the produts are overpriced then they will not get the custom. If they have a unique product that everybody wants, then the punters will flock in. Most retailers would like to stock something between those two.
As a shopper I'd like to see business people with original ideas opening shops selling products unique to this area, we already have a few, can the BID arrange to get a few of these in please. Before anyone says it, they can live side by side with national chain-stores as it seems to work well in other towns.
You have the choice of opening a shop yourself. You could have been that retailer.
Anyone moaning about the lack of choice in shops and doesn't open a shop themselves should hang their head in shame.
You have the choice of opening a shop yourself. You could have been that retailer. Anyone moaning about the lack of choice in shops and doesn't open a shop themselves should hang their head in shame.
There are some circumstances that might stop you from owning a shop, perhaps being declared bankrupt or having a poor credit rating. Was it one of these conditions that stopped you? Or are you simply too important?
If not, stop moaning that there were no independent shops in Newbury. It's partly your fault there are so few independents tin Newbury.
There is a huge increase in "white van" traffic, thanks to Berners-Lee . Most of it struggles through a 6'6" width restriction outside my house.
Pottering around the lanes near Winchester, there once was a constant stream of delivery vans vainly trying to find obscure properties. It was like being met with a column of tanks.
I accept it for a good service to people who can't get about anymore. And I shall probably end up accepting the £15.00 first use voucher one day. ce
There are some circumstances that might stop you from owning a shop, perhaps being declared bankrupt or having a poor credit rating. Was it one of these conditions that stopped you? Or are you simply too important?
If not, stop moaning that there were no independent shops in Newbury. It's partly your fault there are so few independents tin Newbury.
No, it's that rents are too high, business rates are too high, parking charges are too high, there's not enough free parking, there's no convenient parking, there are too many council regulations, there are too many central government regulations, there aren't any shoppers in Newbury, there are too many shops, there's too many roadworks, the roads are a state and need fixing.
It's certainly not my fault that I don't own a shop, it's everything above that prevents me from doing so.
No, it's that rents are too high, business rates are too high, parking charges are too high, there's not enough free parking, there's no convenient parking, there are too many council regulations, there are too many central government regulations, there aren't any shoppers in Newbury, there are too many shops, there's too many roadworks, the roads are a state and need fixing.
It's certainly not my fault that I don't own a shop, it's everything above that prevents me from doing so.
I'd open a shop, but to do so would need funding via a loan from the bank. As someone else has mentioned, you need AT LEAST three months rent, three months deposit to get the keys to a shop. Very few businesses make money straight away, so you need to have working capital. Then you have the seed capital for stock, fixtures and fittings. It's an expensive game, and only worth doing if you have fully researched it, researched it again and then you are certain it will work before you take out the massive start up loan.
A recent meeting of the Chamber of Commerce which included a presentation of the BID was cancelled because of lack of interest.
At the same meeting, there was to have been a presentation by Jeff Brooks
"Jeff Brooks – Talent Attraction Expert, Business Owner & Liberal Democrat Leader at West Berks Council Jeff will discuss how Newbury can attract & retain the right level of people in order to prosper"
One area would be like a town where I used to live which funded free parking for the first 30 minutes or a refund of more money when a purchase was made. In this instance it was traders rather than a bid - but I am sure that could be applied.
No, it's that rents are too high, business rates are too high, parking charges are too high, there's not enough free parking, there's no convenient parking, there are too many council regulations, there are too many central government regulations, there aren't any shoppers in Newbury, there are too many shops, there's too many roadworks, the roads are a state and need fixing.
It's certainly not my fault that I don't own a shop, it's everything above that prevents me from doing so.
Nice one user..Park Way's the gamechanger now though.
There are some circumstances that might stop you from owning a shop, perhaps being declared bankrupt or having a poor credit rating. Was it one of these conditions that stopped you? Or are you simply too important?
....Or the fact User23 works for WBC - so he knows feck all about customer service!!
Why are council tax payers are expected to fork out for decorations which are, I assume, mostly for the benefit of retailers? Glad to see that Park Way are thinking on the same lines. Good work.
So far as the rest of the town is concerned, I've always thought that Hungerford's Christmas lights are rather classy and, I'd guess, a lot cheaper than Newbury's. They use lots of white fairy lights and Christmas trees (e.g. attached to lamp-posts and above shop fronts: see below). I'm sure that our local shopkeepers can club together and sort out something just as good for a lot less than £50K
Why are council tax payers are expected to fork out for decorations which are, I assume, mostly for the benefit of retailers? Glad to see that Park Way are thinking on the same lines. Good work.
So far as the rest of the town is concerned, I've always thought that Hungerford's Christmas lights are rather classy and, I'd guess, a lot cheaper than Newbury's. They use lots of white fairy lights and Christmas trees (e.g. attached to lamp-posts and above shop fronts: see below). I'm sure that our local shopkeepers can club together and sort out something just as good for a lot less than £50K
I paid £10 for 50 LED white lights. 50K buys 250,000 lights or 80,000 metres. Assume it is no longer a man on a ladder but road closure, a cherry picker, qualified electrician and a spare and six men to watch plus the back office accountant, planning permission and administrators (temps obviously) and that is where the money goes.
Yes, but that was in the days when there was money to burn. Now we have The Big Society and no money. I imagine that what happens in Hungerford is that each retailer agrees to put up a tree and a few lights outside their own premises, the council lashes a few to the lamp posts, a business sponsors the large Christmas tree and that's it. As I say, in my view it works much better than Newbury's rather dismal effort.
I'm sure that our local shopkeepers can club together and sort out something just as good for a lot less than £50K
therein lies the problem
Isn't this what the BID is about? I think that this is part of the problem with starting the BID without any goals or objectives. Past history in Newbury shows that initiatives such as the BID (TCP, NRA, Chamber of Commerce) are well intentioned but turn into talking forums without any real consensus or any real actions. Unless care is taken, it looks like the BID is going this way as well.
Isn't this what the BID is about? I think that this is part of the problem with starting the BID without any goals or objectives. Past history in Newbury shows that initiatives such as the BID (TCP, NRA, Chamber of Commerce) are well intentioned but turn into talking forums without any real consensus or any real actions. Unless care is taken, it looks like the BID is going this way as well.
I agree. Unless clear aims and objectives are set for the BID it's in danger of not achieving anything. The only difference between the BID and the other organisations is that it could have reasonable amount of funding to spend.
It's a puzzle that Newbury spends £50k on Christmas lights, whereas the Borough of Windsor & Maidenhead spends just £40k. Windsor spends £6k on lights (plus whatever sponsorship they can raise from local retailers), and the same traders raised £3000 to sponsor the Christmas lights switch on.
But the paradox is town centre businesses will rightly think they've already paid for Christmas lights through the BID tax, and therefore are less likely to contribute more for anything else.
Maybe the clue to this quandary is in NTC's response. Instead of finding ways to CUT the cost, they're preparing to continue taxing us to pay for something most of us believe should NOT be subsidised. I wonder if the £50k has the usual NTC overheads built in (as used in the allotment debacle).
Christmas Lights funding is always controversial! Where towns have ceased to have no lights the views from the public are generally 50/50 between outrage and apathy. Personally I think towns should have lights / decorations to brighten up the winter. As to funding this should be split between different parties - retailers, councils and other commercial interests (pubs, restuarants, taxis etc).
It is also true that the bulk of the cost is to pay for logistics (men in vans, storage, access equipment etc) so that often residents feel short changed for the amount of money spent. This is where we need new ideas; for example, instead of trying to cover every square inch of the town in lights, have displays in different areas of the town and turn them into a trail for children to follow - keeps the kids happy and families in the town for longer. I am sure there are other ideas.
I also think it is slightly harsh to say that retailers should pay totally - retailers pay the highest amounts of business rates as it is. Supermarkets and Internet companies take sales out of the town and do not contribute in any way to the local economy; residents buy gifts from them and then visit the town centre and expect to see fantastic lights paid for by the shops!
Christmas Lights funding is always controversial! Where towns have ceased to have no lights the views from the public are generally 50/50 between outrage and apathy. Personally I think towns should have lights / decorations to brighten up the winter. As to funding this should be split between different parties - retailers, councils and other commercial interests (pubs, restuarants, taxis etc).
It is also true that the bulk of the cost is to pay for logistics (men in vans, storage, access equipment etc) so that often residents feel short changed for the amount of money spent. This is where we need new ideas; for example, instead of trying to cover every square inch of the town in lights, have displays in different areas of the town and turn them into a trail for children to follow - keeps the kids happy and families in the town for longer. I am sure there are other ideas.
I also think it is slightly harsh to say that retailers should pay totally - retailers pay the highest amounts of business rates as it is. Supermarkets and Internet companies take sales out of the town and do not contribute in any way to the local economy; residents buy gifts from them and then visit the town centre and expect to see fantastic lights paid for by the shops!
Certainly food for thought here. Possibly Christmas is now regarded as very commercial and that's why retailers would be expected to pay towards it. Having said that, without lights Christmas would be very bleak. In my experience, children and shopping are a poor combination (unless its for the children!) and from a retailers point of view doesn't increase the money spent in shops.
Can you confirm that the BID is considering paying for or towards the lights? What do the retailers think of this?
Christmas Lights will certainly form part of the BID discussions. Ultimately the businesses in the BID area will decide if funds should go towards the lights and I am sure there will be constructive discussions with the Town Council as well. We all need to work together on this one!
Christmas Lights funding is always controversial! Where towns have ceased to have no lights the views from the public are generally 50/50 between outrage and apathy. Personally I think towns should have lights / decorations to brighten up the winter. As to funding this should be split between different parties - retailers, councils and other commercial interests (pubs, restuarants, taxis etc).
.....
I also think it is slightly harsh to say that retailers should pay totally - retailers pay the highest amounts of business rates as it is. Supermarkets and Internet companies take sales out of the town and do not contribute in any way to the local economy; residents buy gifts from them and then visit the town centre and expect to see fantastic lights paid for by the shops!
If local businesses pay for them I am sure they would expect to receive increased profits as a result.
It is questionable why we need the lights at all - whilst some can enhance the area, I don't see they fit in with the true Christmas ideal, and unless they are renewed regularly don't seem to bring much to the town.
Christmas Lights will certainly form part of the BID discussions. Ultimately the businesses in the BID area will decide if funds should go towards the lights and I am sure there will be constructive discussions with the Town Council as well. We all need to work together on this one!
Who is the "we" that need to work together. My understanding is that retail organisations pay an amount to the BID. It seems to have very little to do with anyone else unless the BID is going to take over some of the council services that affect non retailers. If this is the case then I can't see why the organisation should exist at all if it disenfranchises non retailers!
I don't think we need new ideas at all - we can just recycle Hungerford's old idea (see above). Each shopkeeper takes responsibility for decorating their own premises, the council gets a sponsor for a christmas tree. That's it. Let's not pretend we're not in a deep financial crisis here. The council shouldn't be spending our money on lights when a. there's a much better and more cost effective solution and b. there are much more pressing priorities to be dealt with.
Who is the "we" that need to work together. My understanding is that retail organisations pay an amount to the BID. It seems to have very little to do with anyone else unless the BID is going to take over some of the council services that affect non retailers. If this is the case then I can't see why the organisation should exist at all if it disenfranchises non retailers!
All rateable premises within a BID area will pay, this will include retailers, offices, car parks, so everyone will be included.
All rateable premises within a BID area will pay, this will include retailers, offices, car parks, so everyone will be included.
You mean everyone within that is commercial with the BID area? That's not everyone, so as I said, I would be upset if the BID were to use my council tax money to fund something that the Council should/is already be responsible for and I have no say over it.
You mean everyone within that is commercial with the BID area? That's not everyone, so as I said, I would be upset if the BID were to use my council tax money to fund something that the Council should/is already be responsible for and I have no say over it.
No Council Tax monies will be used by the BID - Council Tax will continue to be collected by the Council and they will spend it accordingly; they have to provide certain services which they will still have to. BID monies are collected from commercial rate payers and spent by them - this is totally separate to Council Tax.
No Council Tax monies will be used by the BID - Council Tax will continue to be collected by the Council and they will spend it accordingly; they have to provide certain services which they will still have to. BID monies are collected from commercial rate payers and spent by them - this is totally separate to Council Tax.
I think that you miss the point a bit here. The council only has statutory requirements for certain services. At the moment, the council is providing more than is required. Should the BID take over some of these services (which I am sure that those in the BID will try and avoid) the same services will be the BID's responsibility. At this point, it becomes a commercial decision whether or not to maintain them and I have no say in this. So whilst from a simplistic view, the BID and Council Tax are separate, the fact is that they are related, especially as WBC has already provided funds to the BID.
A land train connecting up all the car parks (why?) A town map shoppers have to pay for A district-wide website currently run by WBC
What puzzles me is why the focus appears to be on attracting new customers from far and wide. Everyone knows it's cheaper to keep the customers you've got than to find new ones.
Newbury has lost around 25% of shoppers since the Cartergrad 25 Year Plan began (not sure it's still being counted as it was going so badly), and WBC reckon Park Way will increase footfall by 15%. So there's still 10% (around 9000) of 'lapsed' customers who are not expected to return even when The People's Glorious Retail Precinct is complete.
As ever, the costs are very real, while the benefits are vague and dubious. Russell the BID manager will have his work cut out to stop this lot falling to bits in a year.
Newbury has lost around 25% of shoppers since the Cartergrad 25 Year Plan began (not sure it's still being counted as it was going so badly), and WBC reckon Park Way will increase footfall by 15%. So there's still 10% (around 9000) of 'lapsed' customers who are not expected to return even when The People's Glorious Retail Precinct is complete.
Footfall has declined all over the country, although not sure where your 25% comes from, which the BID is looking to address. The current project list is open for businesses in the area to contribute to and to vote on. Instead of knocking ideas, come up with some new ones which can be put to the vote
Footfall has declined all over the country, although not sure where your 25% comes from, which the BID is looking to address. The current project list is open for businesses in the area to contribute to and to vote on. Instead of knocking ideas, come up with some new ones which can be put to the vote
The current project list is open for businesses in the area to contribute to and to vote on. Instead of knocking ideas, come up with some new ones which can be put to the vote
I have a suggestion. Instead of building the CGGPWE (the Carter-Griffin Godawful Park-Wrecking Excrescence) in Victoria Park, build something on Northbrook Street. Ideally build a combined new leisure and arts centre and sell off the current Northcroft Centre site and the Waterside Site for de-luxe apartments to pay for it.
This would place a major footfall generating building right in the centre of the town, replacing the current existing and planned ones which are on its periphery. Build a replacement for the Waterside centre next to the library. Don't build the pub/restaurant/dock on the wharf - we have enough empty pub/restaurant buildings already and we don't need another dock.
Good this crowd sourcing, isn't it?
(Just corrected earlier version somewhat - have no idea who 'Parker' was.)
The new Northbrook Street Leisure and Arts Centre could incorporate a roof-top pool to replace the existing outdoor pool, flats (to help pay for the development) and more sub-surface parking (because you can never have enough parking). It would replace a number of the distinctly shoddy buildings which are rapidly being vacated on the west side of Northbrook Street.
One that isn't on that list - parking refund when making a qualifying purchase. Works in Hungerford, why not in Newbury?
Parking refund is a good idea and could become a project of the BID to co-ordinate although as the retailers would have to give out the actual money and pay in to the BID they may be reluctant. Still, could look at parking offers, eg reduced parking charges during the week, free after 3 etc.
Parking refund is a good idea and could become a project of the BID to co-ordinate although as the retailers would have to give out the actual money and pay in to the BID they may be reluctant. Still, could look at parking offers, eg reduced parking charges during the week, free after 3 etc.
You only give a refund if the shopper makes a significant purchase (which could be up to the shop to set) - if it increases the number of sales it must be worth it. Hungerford traders seem to think so.
If the BID group think a CCTV camera is S Bart St is lower priority than a land train, so what?
Looks like some traders think that websites and maps are higher priority than CCTV and parking which differs a great deal from what we're usually told on here.
Some of the grammar and spelling on that site is awful and makes the whole BID look unprofessional.
As I understand it, it's a cross between a bus and a train that would slowly drive around the traffic restricted area with many stop off points so people can hop on and off. I could be wrong though.
As I understand it, it's a cross between a bus and a train that would slowly drive around the traffic restricted area with many stop off points so people can hop on and off. I could be wrong though.
This could upset the people that think buses should be banned!
NewburyP - I'm not sure many of the things on here address the fundamental issues facing the town centre - aggressive out of town supermarket competition, online shopping, rent increases, less money around, growing fear of crime, and car dependency. Perhaps an even bigger issue is that the town centre is moving to Parkway.
From the BID literature I've seen, you may encourage more engagement from those paying your new tax if you asked them for suggestions to deal with these specific threats rather than to just generate more people milling about in town and hoping for a boost in takings.
I propose our own currency...like these chaps. Now can anyone design one? Who would we put on it?
NewburyP - I'm not sure many of the things on here address the fundamental issues facing the town centre - aggressive out of town supermarket competition, online shopping, rent increases, less money around, growing fear of crime, and car dependency. Perhaps an even bigger issue is that the town centre is moving to Parkway.
From the BID literature I've seen, you may encourage more engagement from those paying your new tax if you asked them for suggestions to deal with these specific threats rather than to just generate more people milling about in town and hoping for a boost in takings.
I propose our own currency...like these chaps. Now can anyone design one? Who would we put on it?
Muddler, I don't disagree with you but a local BID is not the vehicle to address macro economic issues it is simply a tool to make an area more attractive for vistors to come and spend time (and cash) here rather than elsewhere. The bigger issues are being addressed (hopefully) by the government's review into the future of the high street.
My own view is that the BID is a great opportunity for town centre businesses to colaborate on marketing, events etc to capitalise on the increased footfall that Parkway will bring. The simple truth is that with no BID there will be almost no marketing, events, street scene improvements for Newbury town centre and I for one think that this is not an option given the current economic climate. We also need to consider that when the economy improves Newbury needs to be in a strong position in relation to towns nearby, so getting the funding in place now is crucial.
The list of potential projects will grow over the coming weeks and as more of the businesses vote for their preferences a majority view will emerge of what is to be achieved.
Muddler, I don't disagree with you but a local BID is not the vehicle to address macro economic issues it is simply a tool to make an area more attractive for vistors to come and spend time (and cash) here rather than elsewhere. The bigger issues are being addressed (hopefully) by the government's review into the future of the high street.
My own view is that the BID is a great opportunity for town centre businesses to colaborate on marketing, events etc to capitalise on the increased footfall that Parkway will bring. The simple truth is that with no BID there will be almost no marketing, events, street scene improvements for Newbury town centre and I for one think that this is not an option given the current economic climate. We also need to consider that when the economy improves Newbury needs to be in a strong position in relation to towns nearby, so getting the funding in place now is crucial.
The list of potential projects will grow over the coming weeks and as more of the businesses vote for their preferences a majority view will emerge of what is to be achieved.
Does all this mean that the BID has been accepted by the Newbury businesses? If so, can you tell us what percentage wanted the scheme?
Bartholomew - have you accepted the scheme? Do you want it?
I don't have a business in Newbury, so I have no say in it. If I did have a business, I would make a decison based on what was presented to me. I haven't yet seen any detailed information, so I can't comment on wheteher I would accept it or not.
My own view is that the BID is a great opportunity for town centre businesses to colaborate on marketing, events etc to capitalise on the increased footfall that Parkway will bring.
A bit of an illusion really. Newburyp, please look at the historical footfall figures, which since 2003 have fallen 25%. Council estimates say Parkway will add 15% to 'current' footfall. Equals -10% in my book. If you're serious about asking businesses for an extra £2m to get us back to where we were 10 years ago, surely a better starting point would be to look at where the 10% have gone and why. Who are these mystery shoppers you're expecting?
And you infer that the current funding for town centre events etc is to end regardless of the BID vote. I wasn't aware of this, but has the steering group decided this, or are you offering it as a threat ("vote for this or we'll cancel everything"). I'm sure you don't intend that, because as you'll know, many many towns put on all sorts without forced taxation.
The local lottery in Godalming is rather successful, and the free parking in Witney is doing no end of good for those in the shadow of Oxford. The Totnes Pound is now accepted in 70 shops. Of course, Oxford rejected a BID and was heaving when I went last week.
Please can you explain how many extra visitors this £2m shopping tax will generate. How much will these people spend in the town centre? Surely you have to furnish the businesses with the facts before you ask them to give away their money.
Have a look at what's happening across the country....
A bit of an illusion really. Newburyp, please look at the historical footfall figures, which since 2003 have fallen 25%. Council estimates say Parkway will add 15% to 'current' footfall. Equals -10% in my book. If you're serious about asking businesses for an extra £2m to get us back to where we were 10 years ago, surely a better starting point would be to look at where the 10% have gone and why. Who are these mystery shoppers you're expecting?
And you infer that the current funding for town centre events etc is to end regardless of the BID vote. I wasn't aware of this, but has the steering group decided this, or are you offering it as a threat ("vote for this or we'll cancel everything"). I'm sure you don't intend that, because as you'll know, many many towns put on all sorts without forced taxation.
The local lottery in Godalming is rather successful, and the free parking in Witney is doing no end of good for those in the shadow of Oxford. The Totnes Pound is now accepted in 70 shops. Of course, Oxford rejected a BID and was heaving when I went last week.
Please can you explain how many extra visitors this £2m shopping tax will generate. How much will these people spend in the town centre? Surely you have to furnish the businesses with the facts before you ask them to give away their money.
Have a look at what's happening across the country....
Muddler, lots of points raised. It is clear that you are against the BID which is fair enough but please use the correct facts - it is not a £2m shopping tax, it is £1m over 5 years and is levied against all businesses in the area including the Council, private car park operators, solicitors, accountants etc as well as shops, and not levied on customers or any residents.
But let us take your route and dismiss the BID. WBC has already announced that they are withdrawing the circa £40k per annum funding of the Town Centre Partnership, and NTC have already discussed a reduction in the funding for Christmas Lights. These two factors alone will reduce funding for events and an event co-ordinator by circa £55k per annum - no threat, public fact on record.
With no BID and reduced funding from the local authorities there will be less events, less marketing, and nobody to co-ordinate the ideas you mention. I have worked in several towns and they all have town centre managers and some form of funding to put on events, co-ordinate loyalty schemes etc, some funded by Councils, some by BIDs, some by voluntary contributions from local business or combinations of the three - we do face the prospect here of not having this funding as at present there is very little business contribution, no BID in place, and a commitment from the Councils to reduce / cease funding.
There is no scientific way of predicting the volume of increased footfall, nor how much they will spend, but it is clear that if we do nothing the situation will become worse.
But don't take this from me, make an appointment with the BID team and discuss this in detail, you obviously have strong views and ideas which the BID team would love to hear about.
£2 million? Is the BID really expecting to raise that much?
If so just pay WBC to make all parking free for 3 or 4 hours and the footfall will rocket. No need for a complicated refund scheme.
Agreed and get shops to sell what local people want to purchase! Why do they travel to other shopping centres what is the attraction rather than using local shops? If I was a retailer that would be one of my most important questions to find answers to before opeining a local shop for business.
Muddler, lots of points raised. It is clear that you are against the BID which is fair enough but please use the correct facts - it is not a £2m shopping tax, it is £1m over 5 years and is levied against all businesses in the area including the Council, private car park operators, solicitors, accountants etc as well as shops, and not levied on customers or any residents.
....
So what benefit are the solicitors, accountants etc. expected to get for their money?
Agreed and get shops to sell what local people want to purchase! Why do they travel to other shopping centres what is the attraction rather than using local shops? If I was a retailer that would be one of my most important questions to find answers to before opeining a local shop for business.
Retailers are in business - don't you think they know what to stock?
If I was a retailer and someone came along & started telling me what to stock I'd.....
There is no scientific way of predicting the volume of increased footfall, nor how much they will spend, but it is clear that if we do nothing the situation will become worse.
Thanks NewburyP...a fuller picture is gradually emerging. Sorry for doubling your income inadvertantly too. Now, back to business.
I am not trolling here, although you are right that I am not a fan of extra taxation. However, right now I'm genuinely interested in what value you are bringing. I expect you're a bit miffed with the cynicism on here, but that's the Supreme Leader's fault.
You see, the Cartgrad 25-Year Plan is focused purely on attracting new businesses, not helping existing ones. This all hinged on a national retail ranking that showed Newbury falling sharply. Change or Die they said. We got both. (There's plenty on this elsewhere, but in a nutshell, since the Vision we've lost 25% of shoppers, 25% of tourists, 50 shops have gone to the wall, the market is half it's natural size, and the number of empty shops has doubled).
Now, this Town Centre Tax seems to be more about helping existing town centre businesses. But how do we know whether this £1m will be spent wisely? How are you proposing to benchmark this?
How much extra footfall are you going to generate with this £1m? How will the BID add value for non-retail businesses? How will it assist with wider socio-cultural issues like shoplifting, binge drinking, etc. I'm sure you've got all this to hand as you must get asked this all the time.
As I don't have a town centre business, I can't post my suggestions on your website, so once you tell me what we're trying to achieve, I'll post my ideas on here.
Just looking at the Mary Portas website, it seems that there are many places which are far worse off. The seaside towns like Margate, with high numbers of pensioners living on rapidly decreasing incomes, are obviously being particularly hard hit. Here are some people in Frome discussing the same problem http://goo.gl/0r9Ui
In a situation where overall consumer demand is static or only increasing very slowly, the large chains are the only ones who can really compete on price, and internet shopping is booming, something has to give. We're in a wealthy area and the high tech companies on which much of our local economy depends are still very strong so we can buck the trend to some extent, but even here - based on Muddler's figures - the reduction in footfall and the vacancy rates are alarming.
Well, alarming if you think the town centre should mainly be about shops. This has only really been the case for the past couple of hundred years: before then there was, of course, nothing like the number of shops in our high streets and most buildings would have been houses and homes.
We need more homes and building them in the town centre - incuding directly on Northbroook Street - has to make much more sense than leaving stretches of high value land vacant and unused. A few hundred more people living in the town centre has to be good for the remaining businesses and probably increases security at night. At the end of the day market forces will decide all this - I would guess that the BID will make a difference at the margins but you can't buck nature.
When the change of use applications are approved we obviously need to leave space in Northbrook Street for the town centre leisure and arts centre I proposed as an alternative to the Carter-Griffin Excrescence, but as no one objected to that I assume it's gone through on the nod.
So you would refuse to stock what your customers requested or suggested ?????
Depends. If there was a constant demand from a cross section of customers for items we didn't have, I'd source said items if it was economically viable to do so. If it was requests from one or two nutters who's custom I didn't really care to furnish, I'd not bother.
As I don't have a town centre business, I can't post my suggestions on your website, so once you tell me what we're trying to achieve, I'll post my ideas on here.
Muddler, not strictly true. Any business (or individual) can put a voluntary contribution to the BID and become a member (as per Newbury Racecourse, Newbury Weekly News) which gives voting rights, although I take the point that you are not a business in the planned area. The BID team, however, would still like to engage with those who have ideas as they need to be aired prior to end October.
By the end of October the business plan that will be the basis of the formal vote in March / April 2012 will be complete; if you then suggest ideas it will be too late to include. Email the BID team and arrange a meeting.
Muddler, not strictly true. Any business (or individual) can put a voluntary contribution to the BID and become a member (as per Newbury Racecourse, Newbury Weekly News) which gives voting rights.
Does this include voting rights to accept or reject the full BID proposal?
Any business (or individual) can put a voluntary contribution to the BID and become a member (as per Newbury Racecourse, Newbury Weekly News) which gives voting rights, although I take the point that you are not a business in the planned area.
Good to see how undemocratic it is then - the larger businesses can put in a little extra and decide to do what is best for the larger business.
You still haven't answered what all the accountants and office based businesses are going to get for their money - but I expect that is because you are embarrassed by the answer.
Such negativity from folk who don't even have a town centre business.....
You're right, I don't really see why individuals who do not have a local town centre business feel that they should engage with a project that is funded by and operates on behalf of those that do. If the BID goes ahead and if it works, then the business community stand to gain by being able to control their own environment. A more attractive and planned shopping area will attract more shoppers and by association will attract more diverse shops. The shopping will be improved and thus the shoppers gain by having what they want locally. If it all goes nails up, then the town hasn't really lost anything as there is no town centre management today so it's back to square one.
As far as the non shopping businesses are concerned, being in a vibrant town centre must lead to improved access by vitue of the fact that part of the BID would be to promote its activities and generate customers from their communal advertising. As a business within the BID they have the opportunity to influence both the entry into a BID but if it goes ahead what return they get for their financial input.
I take it that you'll not speak out for the blind or disabled unless you suffer from the affliction yourself then judging by that comment!
That's rather a sweeping statement, these groups have considerable power to support their needs hence the proliferation of disabled parking, guide dogs for the blind etc, all of which are paid for out of our taxes or by our voluntary subscription. So, their own BID in reality.
The BID team, however, would still like to engage with those who have ideas as they need to be aired prior to end October.
By the end of October the business plan that will be the basis of the formal vote in March / April 2012 will be complete; if you then suggest ideas it will be too late to include. Email the BID team and arrange a meeting.
Hi. Thanks for your prompte response. You've not told me what ideas you want us to contribute.
The answers to these are all very different. So can you please tell me what problems you are trying to solve. There's nothing on your website to say why you need to exist, other than "there's no alternative".
Look at these questions. They elicit different responses, so which ones do you want me/us to focus on?
How to attract more people (daytime) How to attract more people (evening) How to get people to spend more How long do we want people to stay
That's rather a sweeping statement, these groups have considerable power to support their needs hence the proliferation of disabled parking, guide dogs for the blind etc, all of which are paid for out of our taxes or by our voluntary subscription. So, their own BID in reality.
That was not the point he was making. He feels he is entitled to comment even if he is not a stake holder.
Exactly, some businesses may find that extra burden too much and go under as a result!
I doubt that supporting the BID would be able to tip somone into going under. If it is, then the business is going to close anyway. The flip side is that the BID might just improve the viability of the area and be the saviour of a struggling retailer.
Do you know what the net cost is to a small retailer by the way.
I doubt that supporting the BID would be able to tip somone into going under. If it is, then the business is going to close anyway. The flip side is that the BID might just improve the viability of the area and be the saviour of a struggling retailer.
Do you know what the net cost is to a small retailer by the way.
The bid contribution is based on the rateable value of the property. Very small businesses will pay nothing at all but will still be able to vote and will still benefit from the scheme.
The bid contribution is based on the rateable value of the property. Very small businesses will pay nothing at all but will still be able to vote and will still benefit from the scheme.
That was not a general question but directed at NOBBY who seemed to think from the tone of his post that we were talking massive weekly contributions.
There was a post on this thread by NEWBURY BID although his only post that might bear repeating....
I have read with interest the recent post regarding the Newbury BID, and if possible would like to dispel many of the misunderstandings and in some cases wrong facts being quoted. The BID was proposed by the TCP in late autumn of last year, this is very typical of BIDs up and down the UK, to be proposed by TCP's, CIC's or a group of like minded businesses. The BID has been funded in two parts, part by the tax payer and part by private businesses via voluntary contributions to the development of the BID. The BID is an independent organisation, it is not the TCP or TCC or WBC.
The BID steering group is made up of a cross section of volunteers who have expressed a keen interest in being involved with the development of the BID, as they see it as a way to help themselves improve their businesses and Newbury as a whole, four new people who have recently joined the steering group share that view, Paul Redman, Kitchenmonger, Wendy Seddon, The Schoolwear company, Neil Carter, Parkway manager and Lind Thomas, Lloyds TSB.
The aim of the Newbury BID is to simply provide a more vibrant, clean and safe place to live, work and do business, whilst I appreciate this is a very broad brush approach, we do have to have a target to work towards. As has happened in many cases in the past in Newbury, the BID team could have come along with pre conceived ideas and dictated what the money was going to be spent on based on what we think it needs, however as Brian B quite rightly points out this is how a BID differs. It is not a case of being clueless and lacking ideas, in fact many of the things we anticipated coming out of the consultation simply haven't, it is a case of actually asking each business what they want and need to improve their business, and until we get feedback from all concerned we cant possible put forward any costed projects, we would be back to guessing or what we think we need. This is a real chance for businesses to help themselves.
Below is a list of the feedback from the early consultation;
1, Car parking - cost, location & spaces 2, Signage - pedestrian - directional & Information and Vehicular movement in/out of town and car parks 3, Marketing - to increase footfall 4, Empty shops - attracting new destination shopping 5, Returning to the market town feel 6, Chuggers 7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets 8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower 9, Recycling of trade waist 10, Security
It is very hard to argue with this list as it is genuine feedback from the retailers, some I agree should be dealt with by WBC, and this is why it is vital we have the base line agreements in place to ensure that anything we do is in addition. Once the baseline agreements are finalised I will publish on the website for all to see. This is again where the BID comes into play, having a collective voice to lobby WBC and affect real change.
Like Richard has quoted a number of BIDs, he perceives to be not successful, we could also list many that are, and in fact have turned round town centres that were quickly going into decline, but rather than take my word for it or for that matter Richards, I would urge you to look at, http://www.britishbids.info/ contact some of the businesses in those areas and make up your minds from facts. rather than myth.
The levy that can be applied is from 1-5%, however as in the majority of the cases we are proposing a 1% levy for Newbury. We are currently working on a voting system that will be added to the web site, so following the feedback we will be able to propose projects that have real costings, again this will be down to the businesses, if they decide they want more projects then it may be that the levy is 1.5% to cover them, but I would stress this is all your decision as a business in the BID area
We are looking to have a draft business plan by late autumn which will outline the proposed projects that the BID will cover, however this can, and must, only be done once we have every body's feedback.
Richard, it would appear that you have much to offer and contribute, and would welcome the opportunity of working with you to improve Newbury in what ever form that takes, as I am sure we all agree, that is the end goal. My contact details are on the web site, we also run an open surgery every Thursday from 9am to 12pm at our offices at Broadway house.
I will endeavour to keep as much information on the website as possible in a timely fashion, however please don't use this forum to simply rubbish the BID please come and talk to me so we can work together to make improvements for Newbury, If you don't have your say or input now, please don't complain about the outcomes. If you require any more information regarding the BID or simply want to have your say, please do contact me.
The bid contribution is based on the rateable value of the property. Very small businesses will pay nothing at all but will still be able to vote and will still benefit from the scheme.
Thanks for that Brian B - in the Original posting (copied by Brian) there was no reference to a nil charge just a 1-5% bracket. I see however it says part funded by the taxpayer!
Whilst I anticipated the costs to a struggling business might be very small, it could still have been enough to tip them over the edge!
I have not heard of any benefits that a non-Retail business will get!
The aim of the Newbury BID is to simply provide a more vibrant, clean and safe place to live, work and do business
Below is a list of the feedback from the early consultation;
1, Car parking - cost, location & spaces 2, Signage - pedestrian - directional & Information and Vehicular movement in/out of town and car parks 3, Marketing - to increase footfall 4, Empty shops - attracting new destination shopping 5, Returning to the market town feel 6, Chuggers 7, Facilities at the North of town, ATM, Toilets 8, Christmas lights, more focus on Cheap st, Bart st and Northbrook st with a second tree at the clock tower 9, Recycling of trade waist 10, Security
Thanks for that. Good to hear we have an objective.
1. Car parking (not again ) appears to be aimed at 'new' visitors who don't know where to park. Good job WBC is dealing with this through s106 funding. It's due to happen in the next 6 months, so No further action needed there. (Nil cost to BID)
2. Pedestrian signage - I believe NTC is preparing to install more fingerposts once Parkway is open. Developer contributions pay for this too. (Nil cost to BID)
3. Marketing (the big one). To increase footfall. I am struggling with this. Why? The Halloween event in the Market Place is very good, but seems to be mostly profitable for the fairground types who sell glowsticks and assorted tat. It got 4000 people out last year, but all the shops were shut. Same with Xmas light switch on, Newbury Carnival, Crafty Craft, Hennessy weekend, giant insects etc.
Maybe it's nothing to do with retail sales, and you have a more aesthetic purpose to make Newbury even busier just to create a buzz. But I would have thought members would want it to convert into money in the bank. I propose you use this to get people ALREADY shopping in Newbury to spend more. (£200k already proposed seems right at £40k a year).
4. Empty shops - complex issue, several measures needed. Lobby WBC to remove planning restrictions to offer more bars/cafes in Northbrook Street (nil cost).
5. Return to market town feel - the carnival's a dying tradition, so maybe we should count our blessings rather than wind back the clock to half-day closing. Make more of heritage days (a la Hungerford Extravaganza) with shopkeepers dressed up etc. (Budget £3k x 5yrs = £15k)
6. Chuggers - gawd. Flashmob them everytime they turn up. (nil cost)
7. Facilities for the north of town (cashpoint, toilets). McDonalds and Waitrose have ATMs. Cafes with toilets is surely the way to go - people more likely to buy something/less vandalism. (Nil cost to BID)
8. More and better Christmas decs - progress the renewable energy project at Faraday weir, and use the feed in tariff to fund (and hopefully generate the power for) our Christmas lights for years to come. (Nil cost to BID)
9. Recycling trade waste - there's got to be an award-winning social enterprise type opportunity here under the Localism banner. Perhaps similar to the furniture project, but where they can flog the metal etc to recoup collection costs (hopefully, nil cost to BID). WBC could stipulate that charity shops must have a donation bank to prevent bags of stuff getting rifled.
10. Security - if this is a real issue, store security rests with retailers (nil cost to BID).
So, my BID works out at £215k over 5 years, with 1 FTE administering (say £30k) = £250k.
Some of these are admittedly complicated, but I'm sure we can manage all this by 2017.
Muddler, not strictly true. Any business (or individual) can put a voluntary contribution to the BID and become a member (as per Newbury Racecourse, Newbury Weekly News) which gives voting rights, although I take the point that you are not a business in the planned area. The BID team, however, would still like to engage with those who have ideas as they need to be aired prior to end October.
By the end of October the business plan that will be the basis of the formal vote in March / April 2012 will be complete; if you then suggest ideas it will be too late to include. Email the BID team and arrange a meeting.
How about, as a customer, I might be concerned about the grip that large stores have on the town that might be to the detriment to my favourite little store?
People either hold a valid point, or not, regardless of their disposition. This is why we can enjoy forums. We are all stake holders in some form and people like Lovejoy are as partisan as anyone else.
It's frustrating that these "vested interests" see any questioning of their activities as 'running Newbury down'. The TCP is fond of wheeling this out to deflect criticism, a bit like when anti-war Americans are called "unpatriotic".
Yes, some people are cynical or pessimistic, but there's no harm in asking why this new tax is needed now. It's very good of the BID people to come on here and engage, I am pleased they've been able to shed light on what they're trying to do.
With the TCP, you could pay as little as £100 a year for a place at the table, and you don't need to be in the town centre (eg Newbury College, racecourse, Sainsburys, Sutton Griffin, Cannons) to be on the steering group.
Another option would be to let WBC do it all their way and run the town centre directly. I doubt there would be many fans of that!
You could leave it to the Chamber of Commerce, but that only represents one in six businesses in Newbury. It does work well in Hungerford though.
So the BID is a more accountable way of working together to tackle any shortcomings in our town. As a structure it's far more open and accountable than either of the above. But the proof of the pudding will be on the quality of ideas generated. And so far, I think some of these could be improved. I'm pleased the BID team are keen to improve them too.
So the BID is a more accountable way of working together to tackle any shortcomings in our town. As a structure it's far more open and accountable than either of the above. But the proof of the pudding will be on the quality of ideas generated. And so far, I think some of these could be improved. I'm pleased the BID team are keen to improve them too.
Muddler, I'm with you on this. A BID has an executive committee that is made up from member businesses and voted for by the other members, so no 'appointments'; businesses outside of the BID area can make a financial contribution which entitles them to become a member but they would have to be voted on to the committee should they wish to stand.
In terms of ideas, for me (and this does not speak for everyone) the priority is to increase footfall, both by retaining customers who currently shop elsewhere or by attracting new visitors - this will include additional events (or at least planning events so that town centre businesses can take commercial advantage of them), and marketing activities and should focus on both daytime and evening.
Other important objectives will be to improve the look of the town through clean up squads, working with landlords of vacant premises, and new signage. On the business side there are many BIDs that have used group procurement for utilities, advertising etc which can reduce costs, and use retained consultants to challenge business rates.
One of the features that is overlooked is that there will be a full time employee to co-ordinate activities and to stand up for town centre businesses - something that we do not currently have, and the ability to secure additional funds for the BID area. Many BIDS have increased their finances significantly through voluntary contributions, applications for grants and co-ordinating commercial activities (eg advertising) with commission back in to the BID coffers to spend on other projects.
If at the end of this the BID is not seen to be effective then it will end in 5 years time as no business would vote for another one.
Good news for Mrs User's website "visitnewbury" then....trebles all round!
It's actually quite a good website, isn't it? Particularly the photos. It would certainly encourage me to visit Newbury if I wasn't already here. Very well done to all concerned! (Mrs and Mr User, apparently!)
Also, a few modest suggestions for improvements. Some video would be good. For god's sake, don't get a councillor to front it - that's always a disaster, in spite of the unintentional humour - but some footage of swans, horses, happy shoppers in the farmer's market, aerial views etc would bring more movement and life.
Next, how about some downloadable audio guided walks on MP3? The Grauniad has some very good (free) ones for walks in London which provide a good model. http://goo.gl/1Sy1U You can do this virtually for free, User, which will win you brownie points. Mrs User is far too sensible to spend time reading this forum so you could even claim that it's your own idea!
Finally, Facebook, Twitter and Google Maps don't appear to feature at present - well worth trying.
Ah well, must get back to trolling and winding you up but I hope you've found that helpful.
Really? The first thing I saw was an invitation to visit "Kate Middleton country"? After vomiting I wondered why a site meant to encourage visitors to Newbury would be inviting them to visit Bucklebury.
Really? The first thing I saw was an invitation to visit "Kate Middleton country"? After vomiting I wondered why a site meant to encourage visitors to Newbury would be inviting them to visit Bucklebury.
Looking a bit deeper, it mentioned Walbury Hill. Rather than limit it to Noobree's excellent idea of Newbury walks, why not walks around West Berks? I'm sure the local rambler's group would be happy to oblige. They do have an excellent book of local walks.
It's on page 3 position 9 on Google for search term newbury so I doubt anyone would actually find it anyway.
Looking a bit deeper, it mentioned Walbury Hill. Rather than limit it to Noobree's excellent idea of Newbury walks, why not walks around West Berks? I'm sure the local rambler's group would be happy to oblige. They do have an excellent book of local walks.
It's on page 3 position 9 on Google for search term newbury so I doubt anyone would actually find it anyway.
Indeed. And there is, in fact, a Google map so that's good. http://goo.gl/87HYk
It's a bit odd though. The map is titled 'all attractions' in the version I'm looking at (having searched for 'all attractions') and at first site a visitor might think 'There aren't very many and most of them aren't in Newbury'. Then you realise that the map only shows the attractions listed below. There are more, but on the succeeding pages.
It's also a bit of a stretch to describe some of the things listed as 'attractions'. For example, Thatcham is included on this list of attractions in 'Newbury and surrounding area'. Really?
There are other real oddities and a couple of hilarious bloopers but I must dash. Will report later if I have a chance. Hope Mr and Mrs User appreciate the help we're giving them with this.
Visitnewbury is hilarious, I can see why the BID team think it's a good idea to give loads of money to.
At the moment, the only entries are paid for....so if you're looking for restaurants in the area, you get The Harrow at West Ilsley, The Crab at Chieveley, and...er...Pizza Hut at Newbury Retail Park.
There's also the incongruity of WBC taking money from Hampshire and Wiltshire businesses. This can ONLY be because not enough local businesses want to pay the rates voluntarily, so voting for this website means Newbury town centre businesses subsidise the rest of the district.
To illustrate my point....according to WBC's Tourism department, there are NO pubs in Newbury.
Unfortunately some of the original postings are no longer on the thread, for reasons that I cannot explain.
The project cost the taxpayers of West Berks £25,000 which was regarded as a bargain because much of the technology had already been developed by the designers for a Visit Yorkshire Website.
The photos alone probably cost £10K unless they had them already. The designers would have charged for planning meetings, trips back and forth to Newbury etc. etc. I wonder what the ongoing cost and traffic levels look like: anyone out there know?
As a comparison of spending taxpayers money on this sort of thing, it's probably worth noting that Birmingham City Council spent £3,033,000 producing their latest Website.
As a comparison of spending taxpayers money on this sort of thing, it's probably worth noting that Birmingham City Council spent £3,033,000 producing their latest Website.
I wonder what "key corporate tool" means. Perhaps that website has a wider scope than a site a BID would require. This is more of a comparison of the WBC site.
As a comparison of spending taxpayers money on this sort of thing, it's probably worth noting that Birmingham City Council spent £3,033,000 producing their latest Website.
From the way I read it, this was not the simple have a look at Birmingham website, it was the full blown Brummie council website, akin to the WBC website. I am not condoning this amount of expenditure but that's down, in my opinion, to the IT department project management allowing it to get this far. It seems that Birmingham council are as good as the best of them to find reasons not to reply to FoI requests.
From the way I read it, this was not the simple have a look at Birmingham website, it was the full blown Brummie council website, akin to the WBC website. I am not condoning this amount of expenditure but that's down, in my opinion, to the IT department project management allowing it to get this far.
Yes you're both right however I was just using it as an example of what a website can cost.
I also don't condone the amount of expenditure that Birmingham website cost to produce.
Like anything, websites can cost what you are prepared to pay, or what is needed. On the face of it, the BID want a web presence, but don't explain what.
Seriously: who reads these sites? Does anyone have any VFM statistics? I'd imagine more than one member of this forum would froth at the mouth at a thought of a big budget local website, but are they worth it? I can see why the WBC site is expensive, it is more than a marketing tool and would require statutory maintenance.
That is a really professionally produced site and is probably worth the money. The problem with design for a third party, is the amount of time and effort it takes to get the requisite information from the person(s) who will specify what they want the site to say. There is an amount of skill needed for the production of the web design and the graphical shape of course but the most difficult bit is making it say what the user wanted. If you're not careful, you get the horse desined by committee, a camel.
Like anything, websites can cost what you are prepared to pay, or what is needed. On the face of it, the BID want a web presence, but don't explain what.
That's true, but what is also true is there's a minimum spend to get a professional product which is dictated by the market.
It seems to be the businesses in the BID that want a web presence, not the BID team itself. I suspect there are a lot more to vote though, so perhaps it won't be at the top when the process finishes.
I think the game has changed somewhat over the last couple of years. There certainly was a time when large consultancy firms were involved and the public sector were spending obscene amounts on building and running websites.
So far as the BID is concerned, the whole issue comes down to cost justification and working out which of the possible projects it is considering are likely to produce the best returns. Town centre businesses need information on this before they can make sensible decisions about where to spend the BID money. This applies to websites as much as Noddy trains. Obviously.
The problem with design for a third party, is the amount of time and effort it takes to get the requisite information from the person(s) who will specify what they want the site to say. There is an amount of skill needed for the production of the web design and the graphical shape of course but the most difficult bit is making it say what the user wanted. If you're not careful, you get the horse desined by committee, a camel.
Horses for courses, what would you prefer in a desert?
One question I'd have though is 'what about the surrounding areas part?' If I was putting money into a Visit Newbury site I wouldn't want people to visit, say, Hungerford or Thatcham. No doubt that point has been made.
I think the BID site should provide some estimate about the possible return on this investment, as well as the costs, and that's never impossible.
£5K a year to develop and run the Visit Newbury site is probably a bargain
The thing is that as soon as local authorities get involved, costs spiral. When business people with a need to watch costs produce a website, it's how cheaply a good and professional website can be produced. Local authorities aren't spending their own money and don't care about the costs.
The thing is that as soon as local authorities get involved, costs spiral.
Certainly true in the past of both central and local government - eg the Cellan-Jones article, the huge overspends on defence projects etc. etc. demonstrate.
And re. the web, many of the senior people making the big decisions on this had a very poor grasp on the technology and its capabilities and became rather hypnotised by the internet.
These days, if the costs spiral the suppliers won't get paid. We're broke. Very broke and - I think - about to get a good deal broker.
Seriously: who reads these sites? Does anyone have any VFM statistics? I'd imagine more than one member of this forum would froth at the mouth at a thought of a big budget local website, but are they worth it? I can see why the WBC site is expensive, it is more than a marketing tool and would require statutory maintenance.
There is already a web site for Newbury shops it was created in 2007. http;//www.shopnewbury.com
It took 3 months to put together and all shops in Newbury were entitled to a free entry. It is now considerably out of date. I have tried recently to revive it by e-mailing every shop on the NRA mailing list and dropping leaflets off to every shop advising them of the website and to check their entries. I think only about six or seven have responded so far, even though it is FREE.
That gets them a categorised listing and an individual page showing their opening hours. There are paid for adverts (only one or two utilise this facility) £5 per month gets them a link to their own website £20.00 per month gets them a full page advert.
It is very popular with the search engines particularly Google. Just put 'Newbury shops' or 'Newbury Shopping' into google.co.uk and see how high up the listing it is.
Just from todays analysis, there have been:
476 Pageloads. 206 Unique visitors 191 First time visitors 15 Returning visitors
The most popular shops/services today were - fashion outlets, restaurants, bars and pubs, beauty salons and footwear.
Quite a few visitors were looking for a list of new shops going in to Parkway.
It doesn't bode well for the enterprise of those that consider a website being the most important thing, when one already exists! And being the site was set up for free, probably doesn't cost anywhere near £55k! Does 3 months = 450 hours? I would've thought most of these things are based on templates and just require content.
It doesn't bode well for the enterprise of those that consider a website being the most important thing, when one already exists! And being the site was set up for free, probably doesn't cost anywhere near £55k! Does 3 months = 450 hours? I would've thought most of these things are based on templates and just require content.
No, It didn't cost anywhere near £55K. Perhaps it should have been worded 'set up over a 3 month period', although a lot of research was needed to acquire and verify the the data. You would be surprised how many other directories are out there (including Yell), which have inaccurate listings.
Search engine optimisation is also important to achieve a high listing on Google. We are continually being pestered by companies/individuals who assure us that they can get us the number one position on Google. SEO is quite interesting, just out of curiosity we included the word 'boozer' under pubs and bars. This increased the hits on that section by a good 20%. Bad spelling is also rife, there are a lot of people who look for Newbry, Burks.
But the businesses in Newbury don't want to support the visitnewbury site, or they would already pay to get listed. So it's rather odd that they're voting for money to be spent on something they don't believe works.
The high end of spending on websites is in the millions.
Most people are knowledgeable enough to suspect whether a commercial site has had hundreds of thousands spent on it
Not for a static website like Visitnewbury. Other than incorporating maps, it's just pictures and text. Aside from copy and proofreading, a student could knock that up in a day or two in his bedroom.
Well a multi million pound website, and user searched Yell for Newbury Pubs.
It is interesting to note that the third listing for "Newbury pubs" is the Swan Inn at Wilton.
I agree, but (as with printed media) people will rate the product firstly on the look and feel and functionality as seems to have happened with the Newbury Shopping site.
Quoted from 26
Not for a static website like Visitnewbury. Other than incorporating maps, it's just pictures and text. Aside from copy and proofreading, a student could knock that up in a day or two in his bedroom.
Ah, the classic question, "My mate / son / a student could have built this site in days, why did it cost so much?".
It's not a static site is it? How could you check availability of and book accommodation from a national database on a static site?
There's an interest in the look and feel which is generally linked to cost for commercial sites.
This is the standard commercial developers sales pitch. Its the way to make money by selling the Rolls Royce option when only a Focus is needed. In reality, end users care little about "look and feel" provided it is presented in a coherent way. The "interest" is in the money commercial developers make.
This is the standard commercial developers sales pitch. Its the way to make money by selling the Rolls Royce option when only a Focus is needed. In reality, end users care little about "look and feel" provided it is presented in a coherent way. The "interest" is in the money commercial developers make.
Whether it's a car, a magazine or a website most consumers care about the way a product looks and it can often be the primary reason for choosing one over another. Why do you think multi-millions are spent on product design every year?
BrianB is right in saying that quality of content is what a website should be rated by however many consumers judge a website by it's front page.
It's not a static site is it? How could you check availability of and book accommodation from a national database on a static site?There's an interest in the look and feel which is generally linked to cost for commercial sites.
It has a plug in. That doesn't make it dynamic. If an independent company had developed the site it would have cost less and would have involved more seo effort. It's on page 3 of google if you click to uk from the Google menu. Otherwise it is not placed.
Whether it's a car, a magazine or a website most consumers care about the way a product looks and it can often be the primary reason for choosing one over another. Why do you think multi-millions is spent on product design every year?
That's my point exactly. The choice for some may be the Rolls Royce option. For most its the Ford Focus. Those that provide the product design have a vested interest in proving that their jobs are vital and produce results. Go into Tesco and look at their "value" range. These are packaged very simply and provide a massive income to Tesco. In fact they are very little different to packaging around the turn of the century. Seems like the "experts" have been clever enough to justify their jobs by doing things that don't need to be done!
Product design has two aspects. One aspect is to make sure that the product is delivered (be it a web site or a can of beans) at an affordable cost. The second aspect is to sell the product. This is where the "look and feel" comes in and where the experts go to town making money. Expensive packaging doesn't always sell the product but the experts will tell you it does!
It has a plug in. That doesn't make it dynamic. If an independent company had developed the site it would have cost less and would have involved more seo effort. It's on page 3 of google if you click to uk from the Google menu. Otherwise it is not placed.
Looks like a dynamic site, built with a CMS behind it, integrated to a national database of accommodation providers.
Any student that could knock it up in a couple of days should probably be doing it for a living as it'll be unheard of in the industry and they'll make a mint.
A better comparison would be the Ford Focus that cost millions to design and a go-kart put together in someone's garage in their spare time.
It may cost millions to design but it costs less to purchase that a Rolls Royce. That is what consumers are interested in. The go kart isn't a better comparison because you are looking at this from the development side rather than the consumer side. For example, from value to the user, I think that the West Berkshire website is extremely difficult to navigate. I need to know the intricacies of Council operation to use it. Often the only way for me to find the information I need is to use the search function or use google. When I use the Tunbridge Wells website, it has things well described and laid out and makes it easy for me to see where to go and get what I want using the sites navigation. The "look and feel" isn't much different (if anything, the TW website looks less expensive) but the content is easier to get to. I don't know the relative development and support costs but I do know which I prefer to use. As a consumer, I would feel that my tax has been better spent on the TW site.
It may cost millions to design but it costs less to purchase that a Rolls Royce. That is what consumers are interested in. The go kart isn't a better comparison because you are looking at this from the development side rather than the consumer side. For example, from value to the user, I think that the West Berkshire website is extremely difficult to navigate. I need to know the intricacies of Council operation to use it. Often the only way for me to find the information I need is to use the search function or use google. When I use the Tunbridge Wells website, it has things well described and laid out and makes it easy for me to see where to go and get what I want using the sites navigation. The "look and feel" isn't much different (if anything, the TW website looks less expensive) but the content is easier to get to. I don't know the relative development and support costs but I do know which I prefer to use. As a consumer, I would feel that my tax has been better spent on the TW site.
These aren't commercial sites, and to get the to get the thread back on topic I suspect that the small number of businesses who have voted in the BID poll want some involvement with Visit Newbury because of the way it looks given as BrianB has already pointed out there is already a listing site for Newbury shops
I think that the West Berkshire website is extremely difficult to navigate. I need to know the intricacies of Council operation to use it. Often the only way for me to find the information I need is to use the search function or use google. When I use the Tunbridge Wells website, it has things well described and laid out and makes it easy for me to see where to go and get what I want using the sites navigation. The "look and feel" isn't much different (if anything, the TW website looks less expensive) but the content is easier to get to. I don't know the relative development and support costs but I do know which I prefer to use. As a consumer, I would feel that my tax has been better spent on the TW site.
I think that the West Berks website is very difficult to navigate. The information is all there, but it takes a long time to find what you are looking for.
So you had no involvement? The starting poin of any website attempting to gain custom should be to identify the keywords being targeted.
In reality these things are all folly. A website wouldn't attract me to Newbury or anywhere. A waste of money unless it seeks to serve it's own community.
So you had no involvement? The starting poin of any website attempting to gain custom should be to identify the keywords being targeted.
In reality these things are all folly. A website wouldn't attract me to Newbury or anywhere. A waste of money unless it seeks to serve it's own community.
BrianB posted a link to a newsletter that names those involved.
Yes. But they are the contractor. You are once again being deliberately obtuse.
No, I'm trying to understand what you're saying. You said that "If an independent company had developed the site it would have cost less" and that company should be an SME, but New Vision seem to be both independent and an SME.
I don't think this has a relevance to Newbury itself. It's a tourist site for West Berkshire and all the attractions are outside the town. Surely what the BID would want is not to attract tourists to Highclere Castle/Downton Abbey or even Donnington Castle but to attract shoppers to Newbury. I doubt very much if the spend by persons living more than twenty miles from Newbury is better than 0.025% of what gets spent in town. I'm not sure if there is a charge for the toilets in the wharf for the incontinent grey heads whose bus parks up in the Wharf. That is about the extent of the Newbury tourist spend unless they need a cup of tea of course. The very nice lady from the racecourse at the last vision conference announced there was to be a Newbury site at that talking to but if after all this time that's it then forget it. The BID needs to major on promoting town shopping to the twenty mile radius. I doubt that a web site would do that however much was spent on it. I would take a guess that less than 5% of that population would sit down and look it up on a PC before venturing out of the house. But if we must have such a thing and that is what we all believe we need, is a web site which provides a link to the bus routes and timetables, but better than that, a realistic car park section which isn't a lift from Google but gives real advice about where and how to park in the town. A shop listing and encouraging the shops to have their own linked site. This can be an general information site about what they do or perhaps a full blown hard sell site or something inbetween. http://www.naturescorner.co.uk/ http://www.suitsnewbury.co.uk/ http://www.roderickanthony.co.uk/index.html For example, here are three locals that show that they are interested in displaying to their potential customers
Offers which will attract, for instance a voucher which will allow a free hours parking redeeemed in one of the shops participating in the scheme. A live section which with an email address will provide a discount booklet when applied for, listing the shops in the discount scheme. A 'what shops are doing in the town today' sent by email to participants above.
The evening scene is also important and this is where potential customers are more likely to visit a Newbury website but for goodness sake, if it is the local scene then let's have it restricted to a one mile Newbury radius. Safety has to be the priority and the way of getting home after an evening out. The taxi associations could help here by detailing what they will do for people who want to use cabs. http://www.cabco33333.co.uk/ or pubs themselves http://thelionnewbury.co.uk/default.aspx
It doesn't cost much to produce a site but it is essential that it is updated on a very regular basis if it is to be of any value. Nothing worse than looking at the same old stuff every time one logs on and finding duff information or stuff that ended two years ago.
Too old and too busy I'm afraid, also, I'm not a retailer. That said, it's not rocket science. What seems to be missing from most of the work that has gone before is that the objective has not been defined. What seems to be the case is that the leaders of the project want a website and haven't specified why. I am suspicious of the motives behind the people who have produced the offering so far. Partly, I believe to promote their own ends not those of Newbury. Typically the 'Workshop' held in August 2010 at Shaw House thanks the participants for providing the list of subjects for action. The Countryside, Waterways, Highclere Castle, Cultural venues, Hungerford antique shops and, surprise surprise, The Racecourse. Tell me how many of these are to do with shopping in Newbury or even Newbury itself. Bear in mind that the title of the whole thing is Newbury.org.uk. Next, let's look at the people who have being going at it to get funding from the 'Local Strategic Partnership' and perhaps someone could tell me what that is. Sarah Horden. Nice lady and joint managing director of the racecourse. No conflict there of course. Nicola Bulter oh, Newbury Racecourse again. Amanda Loaring, WBC Tourism and Heritage manager. Her job is of course to promote West Berks Tourism. (Oh and the closed museum) Catherine Carkeet, Tourism South East, We obviously haven't got the skill in West Berks so we'll get someone in who has. Anthony Cox, Donnington Valley Hotel. Get 'em on the golf course. Carolyn Taylor, WBC tourism officer. and someone from the WBC IT department, Mathew Scalpello. Not really needed as the project has been outsourced to New Vision Group probably at great cost. Paul Godden being the account manager.
Statement... As well as becoming a point of reference for local residents, the website will drive up footfall for the many retail and restaurant businesses. It will act as a dynamic portal communicating the diversity and quality of the offering in Newbury and West Berkshire, and build an online brand experience for visitors that integrates with off line campaigns.
Sorry folks but in my book this has missed the whole point of promoting Newbury and is just a tourism website full stop, despite the following statement.
Sarah Hordern, Joint Managing Director of Newbury Racecourse submitted the funding application to the LSP. Sarah says “major investment is already underway in Newbury with the Parkway retail development and proposals for both the Faraday Plaza and the Racecourse. The aspiration is to have a website that really sells Newbury and the surrounding area as a great place to visit.”
Not a retailer in site, not even Mr Hopson or even our favourite vision architect.
It seems to me that the websites under discussion are designed for two different purposes, both of which have a use if used together. The Visit Newbury site is designed to attract tourists to the area, retailers will then take advantage of increased footfall; as the retail offer in Newbury is not a destination in its own right at present compared to other nearby Centres, it is understandable why this is not a focus of teh web. Newbury net is a much more detailed site and covers retailers in some depth; this is much more useful for residents and those nearby, and as a link from Visit Newbury for those that want to look into Newbury's retail offer.
I suspect that this link has not been made as there are a number of features of Newbury Net which do Newbury a dis-service; there is a statement on the Home page by Brian Burgess that gives a pretty negative impression of the town; the list of retailers is out of date; the last news was posted in April; many links do not work (eg Kings Coffee House); and it has a forum that in the main is negative about almost everything that happens in Newbury. If any town centre business thinks that this is the website that should represent the town then they really should look in to the detail.
We need to develop the Visit Newbury site to be more encompassing, and if Newbury Net can get itself sorted this would be the natural link from VN.
We need to develop the Visit Newbury site to be more encompassing, and if Newbury Net can get itself sorted this would be the natural link from VN.
You seem to be confusing websites NewburyP. I accept your criticism of newbury.net, and it used to concern me that it appeared to have so much negativity on the forum. However I would suggest that if you read the forum on Newbury Today, that you will find just as much, if not more negativity.
The two websites under comparisson for Newbury shops were Visit Newbury and Shop Newbury. There is no negativity on Shop Newbury and apart from needing updating, there is no reason whatsoever that a link to this site could not be included from Visit Newbury. Maybe retail visitors to the BID site should be made more aware of the Shop Newbury website.
Perhaps you should look at this posting from the Newbury Forum to understand that Shop Newbury is a popular site and is perfectly adequate to satisfy the BID requirement and it is FREE.
It seems to me that the websites under discussion are designed for two different purposes, both of which have a use if used together. The Visit Newbury site is designed to attract tourists to the area, retailers will then take advantage of increased footfall; as the retail offer in Newbury is not a destination in its own right at present compared to other nearby Centres, it is understandable why this is not a focus of teh web. Newbury net is a much more detailed site and covers retailers in some depth; this is much more useful for residents and those nearby, and as a link from Visit Newbury for those that want to look into Newbury's retail offer.
I suspect that this link has not been made as there are a number of features of Newbury Net which do Newbury a dis-service; there is a statement on the Home page by Brian Burgess that gives a pretty negative impression of the town; the list of retailers is out of date; the last news was posted in April; many links do not work (eg Kings Coffee House); and it has a forum that in the main is negative about almost everything that happens in Newbury. If any town centre business thinks that this is the website that should represent the town then they really should look in to the detail.
We need to develop the Visit Newbury site to be more encompassing, and if Newbury Net can get itself sorted this would be the natural link from VN.
Calm down dear - it's only a website. It's a shame that you see alternative ideas as 'negative' (understandable though if you've been listening to the Supreme Leader and his Ministry of Information). I am sure if you'd been around here for the last 10 years, you might share some of the cynicism around the top-down central planning of the Cartergrad Project, which has destroyed so many of the things it said it was here to help with.
No matter...the issue at hand is back to what we're trying to achieve and how best we might go about it. Websites are notoriously difficult to get right....see this, which tries to be a one stop shop whether you're relocating a business or planning a shopping trip.
Websites could soon be old hat in any case. Perhaps smartphone apps are the way to go, and Vodafone is working on some pretty nifty GPS gadgets as we speak. It might be worth having a word with them to trial it in Newbury for free.
A tourism-style website is naive to invest in, because (as brian said) it won't appeal to the locals. Getting the locals onside has to be a higher priority than hoping for coachloads of Highclere daytrippers, and they will sell the place to the wider world much more effectively than any website.
To do that, Newbury needs to shed it's image as an expensive town (yes, taxis, green meanies, pubs, farmers market - that means you!) and focus on doing the basics brilliantly by....
1. A locals-only discount day....say on a Thursday. Free parking/discount vouchers. 2. Sunday opening. Two thirds of town is shut - even when 12,000 turn out for the carnival. Lobby them to open up and coordinate activities for the 'big days'....canoe race, waterways, 10k run etc to give the crowds somewhere other than Tesco to spend their money in. 3. Community litter picks...sponsored by Veolia. 4. Two x 100ft banner ads on the BT Tower promoting discount day.
BrianB - noted re the Shop Newbury site - this site could be adapted to link from the Visit Newbury site; my points about Newbury Net still stand.
Muddler - I disagree that a tourist website is not worth investing in; we need to appeal to both locals and tourists. The ideas you list are what the BID team are working on, and Parkway will hopefully spearhead Sunday opening across the town.
There needs to be a plan for the attraction and retention of both locals and visitors; to ignore either does not make any sense.
WELCOME TO CARTERGRAD Set beneath a canopy of 21st century timber-clad towers, Cartergrad was built on the ruins of a friendly market town called Newbury.
Today, the town offers a wealth of great days out for all to enjoy. Journey back through time at Camp Hopson, an authentic reconstruction of shopping in the 1980s. And for thrill-seekers, why not take part in the regular pastime of bollarding - a white knuckle ride you won't forget in a hurry!
If culture is your thing, then take a stroll via the closed-down museum to the People's Cinema for the latest blockbuster. And if you're here for a more lively weekend, pop to Liquid for 80p drink promotions..it's a riot!
There's plenty more to pack into your stay with us too.....try out our unique 'sinking park', berate a green meanie, or [that's enough ill-informed internet posting - ed]
1. A locals-only discount day....say on a Thursday. Free parking/discount vouchers. 2. Sunday opening. Two thirds of town is shut - even when 12,000 turn out for the carnival. Lobby them to open up and coordinate activities for the 'big days'....canoe race, waterways, 10k run etc to give the crowds somewhere other than Tesco to spend their money in. 3. Community litter picks...sponsored by Veolia. 4. Two x 100ft banner ads on the BT Tower promoting discount day.
Excellent ideas Muddler and I'm sure they'll be welcomed. I particularly like the locals only discount day although why limit it to one day - allow local people to apply for discount cards which they could use as you describe. Either way, easy enough to organise: are there similar schemes elsewhere?
An addition to your list.
5. Late closing day: I can never understand while so many shops open at 9.00am ish every day when there aren't many people around and then close when everyone is on their way home. By 6.00pm Northbrook Street is a wasteland, with only drifts of litter and a few shirtless fellows clutching cans of special brew accompanied by lethal-weapon dogs and cans of special brew to welcome shoppers into town. I know it would take a while to catch on, but surely it would make sense to have at least one late closing day in the town centre. Perhaps Parkway could take the lead on this.
Meanwhile I have taken some photos of alternative locations for the new arts centre which I'll try to post later. They would all have the huge advantage of boosting town centre footfall while exploiting currently derelict sites.
Muddler - I disagree that a tourist website is not worth investing in; we need to appeal to both locals and tourists. The ideas you list are what the BID team are working on, and Parkway will hopefully spearhead Sunday opening across the town.
You really believe that Newbury will attract shopping tourists. What makes you think that I wonder. Why would a tourist come and walk around Newbury town centre with the dozens of other quaint towns and villages as possible tourist venues, we can't even keep our museum open. With places on the map like Oxford, the Cotswolds, Winchester... etc......
The Newbury and surounding areas website majors more on surrounding areas than Newbury town. The list of shops is incomplete and I assume the ones listed have paid for an insertion. There is a nice section inviting the reader to visit Hungerford. That works for Newbury. The one tourist attraction we have is closed till 2014.
You may believe that Newbury.net is negative but when there are schemes in the pipeline to ravage Victoria park fot their pavilion, dig holes in the Wharf, close one of the bridges, allow SLI to do what it likes in terms of planning, do you consider that all that should go ahead without any discussion.
There has been a lot of nonsense on this BID thread but that is the nature of forums and a proportion of them were because some of the posters didn't understand what it was about and for some reason, some of them thought that it was going to add to the tax burden.
Perhaps you should look at this posting from the Newbury Forum to understand that Shop Newbury is a popular site and is perfectly adequate to satisfy the BID requirement and it is FREE.
I thought you said that Shop Newbury wasn't popular with traders as there had been little uptake?
If it doesn't attract traders now, what makes you think it will in the future without bringing the design and functionality up to date?
If it doesn't attract traders now, what makes you think it will in the future without bringing the design and the functionality up to date?
Do you think the design and functionality was the reason business were not very interested? The only thing missing seemed to be a search option and a web link for the various businesses.
I think a smartphone enabled site would be more advantageous, perhaps a Newbury Shopping app for that blood phone every **** has got?
Do you think the design and functionality was the reason business were not very interested? The only thing missing seemed to be a search option and a web link for the various businesses.
I think a smartphone enabled site would be more advantageous, perhaps a Newbury Shopping app for that blood phone every **** has got?
Just a guess so I could be wrong, but it looks 2001 rather than 2011. That would put me off.
Of course you're entitled to disagree but I think it needs a better search, Google maps, a mobile version (at lot easier than writing separate apps for different platforms) and above all an up-to-date and professional look and feel.
1. A locals-only discount day....say on a Thursday. Free parking/discount vouchers. 2. Sunday opening. Two thirds of town is shut - even when 12,000 turn out for the carnival. Lobby them to open up and coordinate activities for the 'big days'....canoe race, waterways, 10k run etc to give the crowds somewhere other than Tesco to spend their money in. 3. Community litter picks...sponsored by Veolia. 4. Two x 100ft banner ads on the BT Tower promoting discount day.
Excellent ideas Muddler and I'm sure they'll be welcomed. I particularly like the locals only discount day although why limit it to one day - allow local people to apply for discount cards which they could use as you describe. Either way, easy enough to organise: are there similar schemes elsewhere?
An addition to your list.
5. Late closing day: I can never understand while so many shops open at 9.00am ish every day when there aren't many people around and then close when everyone is on their way home. By 6.00pm Northbrook Street is a wasteland, with only drifts of litter and a few shirtless fellows clutching cans of special brew accompanied by lethal-weapon dogs and cans of special brew to welcome shoppers into town. I know it would take a while to catch on, but surely it would make sense to have at least one late closing day in the town centre. Perhaps Parkway could take the lead on this.
Meanwhile I have taken some photos of alternative locations for the new arts centre which I'll try to post later. They would all have the huge advantage of boosting town centre footfall while exploiting currently derelict sites.
Just a guess so I could be wrong, but it looks 2001 rather than 2011. That would put me off.
Of course you're entitled to disagree but I think it needs a better search, Google maps, a mobile version (at lot easier than writing separate apps for different platforms) and above all an up-to-date and professional look and feel.
Do you think those are the reasons businesses didn't 'join in'? I'd say a 'professional look and feel' is the least important of those things you listed. It shouldn't be ugly, but usability and easy of extracting the information you want is more important I think.
Marketing and promotion have to be the most important features for getting the word out. Facebook and all the other social networks have to be included in a modern web space marketing campaign I think. Maybe even YouTube virals and similar.
Do you think those are the reasons businesses didn't 'join in'? I'd say a 'professional look and feel' is the least important of those things you listed. It shouldn't be ugly, but usability and easy of extracting the information you want is more important I think.
Marketing and promotion have to be the most important features for getting the word out. Facebook and all the other social networks have to be included in a modern web space marketing campaign I think. Maybe even YouTube virals and similar.
, and to see where in the area they're located on the second.
Actually, it doesn't say so but if you click on the photograph, it brings up the address and also a Google map with a marker which map can be zoomed down to close detail and swop to street view to show the location
Actually, it doesn't say so but if you click on the photograph, it brings up the address and also a Google map with a marker which map can be zoomed down to close detail and swop to street view to show the location
You're right, it only seems to be location maps for specific businesses though.
I can't seem to find a map that displays all businesses in one area, or one type of business in a larger area.
I thought you said that Shop Newbury wasn't popular with traders as there had been little uptake?
If it doesn't attract traders now, what makes you think it will in the future without bringing the design and functionality up to date?
User you find it very difficult to understand the basics of web searching. I am not looking to attract the traders, only inasmuch as I require their up to date information. It doesn't matter whether the site looks as if it was designed in 2001 or 2011. The question is, does it work? There are thousands of visitors every week to the site, hopefully retrieving the information that they require.
Just try this search on Google.co.uk "coffee shops in Newbury" You will find that shopnewbury.com comes on the first page, normally just under the listings for the Google map.
For poor functionality and difficult searching, you need to look no further than http://www.westberks.gov.uk. Don't forget the www otherwise it won't work (you still haven't set up your DNS entries properly)
For poor functionality and difficult searching, you need to look no further than http://www.westberks.gov.uk. Don't forget the www otherwise it won't work (you still haven't set up your DNS entries properly)
It doesn't matter because its not a commercial site!
It doesn't matter because its not a commercial site!
Well it matters to me if we are not getting value for money from the West Berks site. Paying people like user vast salaries to not do his job properly.
There are too many people at West Berks who are all being payed vast salaries, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in a commercial environment.
It seems to me that the websites under discussion are designed for two different purposes, both of which have a use if used together. The Visit Newbury site is designed to attract tourists to the area, retailers will then take advantage of increased footfall; as the retail offer in Newbury is not a destination in its own right at present compared to other nearby Centres, it is understandable why this is not a focus of teh web. Newbury net is a much more detailed site and covers retailers in some depth; this is much more useful for residents and those nearby, and as a link from Visit Newbury for those that want to look into Newbury's retail offer.
I suspect that this link has not been made as there are a number of features of Newbury Net which do Newbury a dis-service; there is a statement on the Home page by Brian Burgess that gives a pretty negative impression of the town; the list of retailers is out of date; the last news was posted in April; many links do not work (eg Kings Coffee House); and it has a forum that in the main is negative about almost everything that happens in Newbury. If any town centre business thinks that this is the website that should represent the town then they really should look in to the detail.
We need to develop the Visit Newbury site to be more encompassing, and if Newbury Net can get itself sorted this would be the natural link from VN.
I can see where NewburyP is coming from. The Newbury Net site gets far higher rankings on the search engines than Newbury Today and it is obviously the negativity (much of it justified) that anyone searching for Newbury gets to read.
I have tried it myself by searching for virtually anything associated with Newbury and the Newburynet site is always there among the top listings, whereas Newbury Today hardly gets a mention.
Well it matters to me if we are not getting value for money from the West Berks site. Paying people like user vast salaries to not do his job properly.
There are too many people at West Berks who are all being payed vast salaries, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in a commercial environment.
These aren't commercial sites (See reply 272 on page 19)
This quote was in reference to the comparison between West Berskhire Council website and Tunbridge Wells Council website. I agree that it is irrelevant that they are not commercial websites.
User you find it very difficult to understand the basics of web searching. I am not looking to attract the traders, only inasmuch as I require their up to date information. It doesn't matter whether the site looks as if it was designed in 2001 or 2011. The question is, does it work? There are thousands of visitors every week to the site, hopefully retrieving the information that they require.
Just try this search on Google.co.uk "coffee shops in Newbury" You will find that shopnewbury.com comes on the first page, normally just under the listings for the Google map.
No need to get defensive, I was just offering my opinion on why Shop Newbury seems to have been rejected by the majority of traders and those who have voted on the BID site.
Sadly, what you've done is what a lot of novices do and is one of the worst mistakes you can make when assessing a website which is thinking lots of traffic probably equals lots of satisfied users. It doesn't and can actually mean lots of annoyed users which could be the case here. Take a look at this page,
Currys Digital 95, Northbrook Street, Newbury, Rg14 1AA 0870 609 7972 Lighting Centre (The) This store has now closed 100, Bartholomew Street, Newbury, RG14 5DY 01635 43034 Newbury Electrical Supplies 50, Bartholomew Street, Newbury, RG14 5QF 01635 44080
it only has three entries on and two are out of date, how many visits did it get and how many left the site dissatisfied, or worse still travelled to Newbury only to find a shop closed? I'm afraid customer service on the Internet isn't as simple as just looking at "web searching",
My advice would be get it looking like a professional site, include the functionality that people expect these days and above all, make sure the content is valid and up to date and perhaps you can win the confidence of Newbury traders.
This quote was in reference to the comparison between West Berskhire Council website and Tunbridge Wells Council website. I agree that it is irrelevant that they are not commercial websites.
That's not true, it was in reference to the comparison between West Berkshire Council a public sector site and Visit Newbury a commercial site.
The West Berkshire Council website and Tunbridge Wells Council website are compared every year. West Berkshire scored 3 stars in 2011:
No need to get defensive, I was just offering my opinion on why Shop Newbury seems to have been rejected by the majority of traders and those who have voted on the BID site.
...Sadly, what you've done is what a lot of novices do...
...My advice would be get it looking like a professional site...
Well thanks for that user. As an amateur, I really appreciate your input.
and in comparison Tunbridge Wells were rated a 2 star site in 2011.
By rejecting any comparison between the council website and commercial websites, you are saying it doesn't matter what the "look and feel" are on a non commercial website. You are saying that it only matters if you are spending money for commercial purposes. So what are the criteria for council websites?
I'm also a bit confused here as I thought that Visitnewbury was a council supported and written website. Does that make it commercial or non commercial? If its commercial then what is the WBC website? If its not then why are you calling it commercial?
I'm not sure who does the comparison on the council websites but I use both and the West Berkshire website is much more difficult to find information and if looks are anything to go by, the TW site is marginally better. Is this done the way that mortgages were by self certification? Certainly seems that way by the evidence.
This is all very well, but I use the mobile internet as much as I use the, er, non mobile one these days. So how about a Newbury shopping app?
When I'm shopping I'm not particularly bothered about shops themselves, it's the stuff they sell I'm after.
A Newbury shopping app would allow me to type a product type or name into my Android (other smart phones are available) and would then tell me where I could buy it in town, when they are open, where the nearest car parks are, who has the best deals etc.
Just installed it and typed in 'umbrellas' and it told me Debenhams is the closest shop where I could buy one (which is probably true) and listed the ranges they stock + prices. It didn't point out that Tesco is the only shop that's open at this time of night that would stock them, but you can't have everything.
A useful initiative for the BID might be to ensure that the data Google Shopper is using is as accurate as possible and kept up to date. They could also tell people Google Shopper exists because until 20 mins ago I wasn't aware of it.
It would seem that is not just highstreet shops that Google and the Internet are putting out of business!
Even without an app (and I think the idea is well worth investigating, particularly thinking ahead to the point when smart phone usage is pretty much ubiquitous) the idea of treating the town centre as one big virtual shop is interesting. As I say, I really don't care which actual shops are there: it's the products, and their prices which I want to know.
If you think of all the town centre retailers as collaborating to offer the best range of products on floor, with a collective database of products...well, it's interesting at least. I shop online a lot - just bought two strimmer reels on Ebay last night for a lot less than I could anywhere locally and they'll first class tomorrow, the low price included first class delivery. But often I'd rather go to an actual shop and I do think service - or actually being able to see the thing - is important for some products. Being able to find a local product online and then walk into town and pick it up would be useful. Argos, Comet, B&Q and others do this already and I often use that kind of service.
The Newbury Smart Shopper App (working name only) would do the same thing as the reserve and collect services, but for all those who bought into the service. No doubt there are pros and cons. Is anyone else doing this? Perhaps we should ask Mary Portas.
Meanwhile, Google Shopper looks like it has lots of potential - it's there and it's free but needs good data to be really useful. I'd hold any decision on spending on websites until this sort of thing has been investigated.
I'm also a bit confused here as I thought that Visitnewbury was a council supported and written website. Does that make it commercial or non commercial? If its commercial then what is the WBC website? If its not then why are you calling it commercial?
I'm not sure who does the comparison on the council websites but I use both and the West Berkshire website is much more difficult to find information and if looks are anything to go by, the TW site is marginally better. Is this done the way that mortgages were by self certification? Certainly seems that way by the evidence.
Read the bulletin in the link BrianB posted for more information on the first question and the link I posted for more information on the second. You can download a summary of the 100 or so criteria by which West Berkshire and Tunbridge Wells were judged and see why the former was rated better than the latter by SocITM.
This is all very well, but I use the mobile internet as much as I use the, er, non mobile one these days. So how about a Newbury shopping app?
You're right, may other people do too but as I mentioned previously, writing an App for a specific platform probably isn't the way to go. I suspect you wouldn't get much change out of five grand to write and support an iPhone App, an Andriod App and a Nokia App.
A better course of action would be to make sure any new Shop/Visit Newbury website renders well on a mobile device. Take at a look at the BBC site for example, looks very different on a mobile device but is in essence the same website with much of the same content.
I am interested to know who in the BID zone suggested investing in the Visit Newbury site.
Was it: a) Someone senior in WBC (who should not have a vote as they are not a business). b) A leisure business outside of the BID zone (as no Newbury hotels advertise with VN). Eg racecourse? c) The BID people, who seem to have pre-conceived opinions about what retailers should be voting for.
Can't think of any other tourism-oriented businesses in the BID zone, who are obviously getting enough leads from the VN site to believe it worth recommending to others.
Perhaps the BID people can say which town centre business suggested each of the ideas on the BID site. In the interests of transparency...just so other interested people can see there's nothing fishy going on.
Meanwhile, Google Shopper looks like it has lots of potential - it's there and it's free but needs good data to be really useful. I'd hold any decision on spending on websites until this sort of thing has been investigated.
I think things like Google shopper effectively renders the importance of a local website as pointless.
I think things like Google shopper effectively renders the importance of a local website as pointless.
Google does full stop. Most searches are via google, not site search engines.
But let's stick to umbrellas. Is there really only one umbrella shop in town? Perhaps...or perhaps Debenhams shows up because Debenhams spend a bit on SEO.
If I ran a town centre business, I would want to drive people to MY website, not a third party site. But I wouldn't invest in SEO if it was to compete with a shopping site I was already paying for.
I think things like Google shopper effectively renders the importance of a local website as pointless.
I don't think I agree with that, but whatever the technical solution something that gives me the ability to check stock in all town centre shops in one hit, find out about prices and stock levels and then reserve a product for collection is surely worth considering. Treating all town centre retailers as one big virtual shop with different departments is also worth thinking about, I'd suggest.
Anyway, I can't think that I've ever looked at a town's retail site to find what shops are there. As I say, I'm interested in products not shops. If I want something that I know a particular store is likely to have - like Maplin - I'll go their website and use reserve and collect. I'd never think of going to Basingstoke's retail site to find out what shops are there.
Incidentally, I wonder why the large supermarkets don't offer reserve and collect as an option - I'd rather do that than have to wait for a delivery and would do so if it was cheaper. I suppose space would be a problem.
PS I like the 'retail theme park' line from the Economist article - Newbury town centre as a retail theme park? All sorts of ideas cross my mind but I'd better get on. Do Camps already offer body piercing (see article), incidentally? Not that I'd be interested myself, of course.
I don't think I agree with that, but whatever the technical solution something that gives me the ability to check stock in all town centre shops in one hit, find out about prices and stock levels and then reserve a product for collection is surely worth considering. Treating all town centre retailers as one big virtual shop with different departments is also worth thinking about, I'd suggest.
But this is something incumbent on the retailers, but like I said, reinventing the wheel and taking on Google seems like an expensive thing to do.
This, however, is only one aspect of retail. What about people who are unsure what they want. Searching is fine if you know what you want, not so good if you don't. There must be a significant part of retail that serves the casual shopper. One who is browsing for ideas.
But this is something incumbent on the retailers, but like I said, reinventing the wheel and taking on Google seems like an expensive thing to do..
I agree, it's all just food for thought. The Google app does seem to have potential but no doubt lots of different ideas can be tried. How about town centre shops collectively using Twitter to promote special offers, vouchers and prizes along with news about new product lines etc. etc.? E.g 'Show the shop assistant this tweet when you pay and get 10% of umbrellas - offer ends in 24 hours' or 'Show the shop assistant this tweet and your car park ticket and we'll give you a pound' or whatever.
Re. your point on browsing, absolutely - need that as well but with clever use of technology perhaps we can have the best of both worlds.
Incidentally, I wonder why the large supermarkets don't offer reserve and collect as an option - I'd rather do that than have to wait for a delivery and would do so if it was cheaper. I suppose space would be a problem.
I would use a reserve and collect option at a supermarket - but I can't see how it could be cheaper, they would have to pay someone to collect the trolley load of stuff.
Only available in north London for now but perhaps the BID could organise something similar for Newbury.
The first one is a platform specific app, which is not ideal for the reasons I've already explained. The second encourages shoppers not to visit the BID area so would probably reduce footfall. In my view, neither are a good idea.
I see there's been some more voting on the BID site.
What are your evaluation criteria? All I'm interested in is buying the products I want conveniently at the lowest cost. Footfall is of no interest to me whatsoever. I would venture to suggest that the seven businesses which have voted the Visit Newbury (and surrounding area) website to the top of the list are thinking primarily of their interests, not mine. As I've already explained I am interested in products and prices, not shops. But I'm just a customer and I only get to vote with my wallet/credit card.
Here's the current description of the Visit Newbury website project from the BID website.
'Visit Newbury Website (Marketing) There are 7 votes for this project
Added 21/07/2011
Content management and development of the current visit Newbury website, increasing visibility and users. Regular up dating of information and maximising the search engine optimisation (SEO, so that it becomes the number one site for all visitors to Newbury. Offering reliable first class information. All business's in Newbury. including shops, hotels, B&B's and general information on what to see & do while visiting Newbury.
Cost Per Year: £5,000.00 Number of Years: 5 Total Cost: £25,000.00'
Leaving aside the question of what 'up dating' might be, this seems to assume that there's a positive correlation between 'visibility' and the number of people who shop in town. I would be very interested to know whether there is any evidence that this is likely to be the case.
Two reasons for this. On the rare occasions I visit physical shops (rather than online ones) in towns other than Newbury I never think 'I must consult their town websites first'. Does anyone? That's a serious question: what evidence is there that websites like this actually increase footfall? Have any of the seven people who voted for this ever done so?
Secondly, it's entirely possible that the number of visitors and users of the site might increase but footfall could decrease as a result. Some of them might decide, having perused the site, 'Meh. I'll go to Basingstoke (or wherever) instead.' Do you see?
The User household has a bit of a vested interest in this one, you have to admit, so we'll excuse you for not being totally objective.
Here's the current description of the Visit Newbury website project from the BID website.
'Visit Newbury Website (Marketing) There are 7 votes for this project
Added 21/07/2011
Content management and development of the current visit Newbury website, increasing visibility and users. Regular up dating of information and maximising the search engine optimisation (SEO, so that it becomes the number one site for all visitors to Newbury. Offering reliable first class information. All business's in Newbury. including shops, hotels, B&B's and general information on what to see & do while visiting Newbury.
Cost Per Year: £5,000.00 Number of Years: 5 Total Cost: £25,000.00'
Leaving aside the question of what 'up dating' might be, this seems to assume that there's a positive correlation between 'visibility' and the number of people who shop in town. I would be very interested to know whether there is any evidence that this is likely to be the case.
Two reasons for this. On the rare occasions I visit physical shops (rather than online ones) in towns other than Newbury I never think 'I must consult their town websites first'. Does anyone? That's a serious question: what evidence is there that websites like this actually increase footfall? Have any of the seven people who voted for this ever done so?
Secondly, it's entirely possible that the number of visitors and users of the site might increase but footfall could decrease as a result. Some of them might decide, having perused the site, 'Meh. I'll go to Basingstoke (or wherever) instead.' Do you see?
The User household has a bit of a vested interest in this one, you have to admit, so we'll excuse you for not being totally objective.
When I shop for something specific like a phone or washing machine, I go on the web, look for the model best suited for me and then if I'm still unsure, I go to a shop that has one available and look at it. If the price is ok in the shop, I'll buy it. Most times, the web price is less so I'll go back there and order it.
When I shop for something more generic, like a present, I feel better looking and touching the products and then making a decision. (See user, look and feel is important!). Ususlly I'll buy what I see there.
When I shop for something more generic, like a present, I feel better looking and touching the products and then making a decision. (See user, look and feel is important!). Ususlly I'll buy what I see there.
Understood, but have you ever visited a website to find out what shops are available in another town before you do so?
If whoever is responsible for the Parkway website is doing their job properly, it will dominate searches for shops in Newbury just as the Festival Place site dominates Basingstoke searches. http://goo.gl/hgSLA
Most new shoppers visiting the town are going to be going to Parkway. Perhaps the BID should spend some money on signs/adverts in the Parkway complex saying 'There are other shops in Newbury, you know'.
OK so we've established a shop directory site isn't necessary in the era of smartphone apps and google. But perhaps we're jumping the gun...
if it's to develop our tourism site, then we need to look at the tourists we do get. Business visitors and visiting relatives are the overwhelming majority in our part of the world....racegoers is third.
Hmm..
Most business visits are booked by PAs and administrators. Sadly, most will search for budget hotels...good for Travelodge, but not for the Chequers. They are extremely unlikely to book a restaurant ahead of arriving, by which time word of mouth is surely the best way to choose where to eat.
Visiting families...likely to be staying over in a house, or nearby B&B/hotel. The big family gatherings are good for business, but there's no need for this group to explore the VN site when the locals have already sorted everything.
That leaves racegoers. More specifically, racegoers who haven't been to Newbury before. Likely to be all-male groups. So, the VN website would need a lot spending on it to attract more big groups of guys.
So the VN site should perhaps be aiming at stag and hen parties...that kind of thing.
Other kinds of tourism (eg rich Americans and Japanese) are difficult to prize away from the Tourist Triangle (London to Oxford to Stonehenge and back).
Although, I still think it would be easier and more profitable for BID businesses just to get ex-town centre shoppers back, and then to focus on attracting people from the smaller towns (Whitchurch, Didcot, Hungerford), I am excited by NewburyP's bravery in going for leisure tourism, and wish the VN site well if it gets the backing of those who are paying for it.
Of course, with this cash, WBC don't need to be involved in VN any more. It could be taken on by a decent web company, so we can keep on cutting public spending.
Understood, but have you ever visited a website to find out what shops are available in another town before you do so?
If whoever is responsible for the Parkway website is doing their job properly, it will dominate searches for shops in Newbury just as the Festival Place site dominates Basingstoke searches. http://goo.gl/hgSLA
Most new shoppers visiting the town are going to be going to Parkway. Perhaps the BID should spend some money on signs/adverts in the Parkway complex saying 'There are other shops in Newbury, you know'.
I didn't realise that there are going to be big barriers to stop shoppers leaving Parkway once they have entered.
Understood, but have you ever visited a website to find out what shops are available in another town before you do so?
No. The only things I look for on the web are the attractions such as museums and galleries. Most towns unfortunately have the same shops and I expect that there will be a Boots, M&S, Tesco, Sainsbury and others in the town.
Don't forget that, as Brian B pointed out, we already have his http://www.shopnewbury.com/ which knocks the socks off Newbury's other shopping related sites in terms of web search rankings. While it may not be flashy enough for those who like lots of glossy pictures, it's clear, looks comprehensive and does the job. As I say, once the Parkway site is firing on all cylinders it'll probably dominate search rankings but between them the sites will do a better job than those for, say, Basingstoke, and presumably at no cost to the BID or council tax payers.
The Visit Newbury (and surrounding area) site is doing a different job - including promoting the well known tourist destinations of Hungerford and, er, Thatcham and has more excellent photos than you can shake a stick at.
Incidentally, for those interested in web searches someone recommended this to me earlier - http://www.boounce.com/ - have only looked at it briefly but it works very well with the Chrome browser, but also available as plugins for other browsers.
What are your evaluation criteria? All I'm interested in is buying the products I want conveniently at the lowest cost. Footfall is of no interest to me whatsoever. I would venture to suggest that the seven businesses which have voted the Visit Newbury (and surrounding area) website to the top of the list are thinking primarily of their interests, not mine. As I've already explained I am interested in products and prices, not shops. But I'm just a customer and I only get to vote with my wallet/credit card.
The criteria I'm evaluating your suggestions against are the need to promote all businesses within the BID, not just shops and that any online offering needs to work on as many different platforms as possible, not just one.
For example I very much doubt the pubs, restaurants and clubs in Newbury would want to put money into a home shopping site designed to keep punters away from the town or any business invest in a shopping app that doesn't work on the iPhone, which were your two previous suggestions.
In my view a BID website should promote the Business Improvement District as a whole, not just the products and prices of a few and should aspire to entice people to Newbury, not encourage them to stay at home.
Of course as far as I know, neither of us have any say in what the BID decide to choose so anything you or I post here is academic.
The criteria I'm evaluating your suggestions against are the need to promote all businesses within the BID, not just shops and that any online offering needs to work on as many different platforms as possible, not just one.
For example I very much doubt the pubs, restaurants and clubs in Newbury would want to put money into a home shopping site designed to keep punters away from the town or any business invest in a shopping app that doesn't work on the iPhone, which were your two previous suggestions.
In my view a BID website should promote the Business Improvement District as a whole, not just the products and prices of a few and should aspire to entice people to Newbury, not encourage them to stay at home.
Of course as far as I know, neither of us have any say in what the BID decide to choose so anything you or I post here is academic.
Not sure where you got the impression that Google Shopper isn't available for iPhone http://www.google.com/mobile/shopper/ but that's entirely beside the point. I was simply pointing out that in a world that's moving increasingly towards smart phones it would be wrong to ignore the possibility of exploiting apps, particularly free ones. At this stage surely it's not a good idea to rule anything out. Or in.
So far as restaurants etc. are concerned there is, of course, Google Places http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/google-places/id406513617?mt=8 Both applications depend on reliable data being available online - another potential way of using the money raised by the BID, perhaps.
I certainly don't get a vote on how the BID spends its money, except in the 'vote with my wallet' sense. I'm sure they're surveying actual and potential town centre shoppers' views on these projects very thorougly rather than assuming that the businesses themselves know what's best.
If I was voting on the list at the BID site I'd want to see business cases and assessments of estimated return on investment, risk analyses etc. before making up my mind. I'm sure anyone would.
More voting on the BID site I see today. Marketing and websites are still top of the list for Newbury businesses.
Anyone know how many get actioned? The top two, three, more?
Well looking at the voting so far, there's only enough funding for the first 4....but it means that our Christmas lights will remain taxpayer funded. Interesting how the retailers don't rate the Christmas lights.....so perhaps NTC should drop them this year.
I see Xmas lights were being discussed - but they are 5th in the voting. Interesting that - shows that at least some of the BID members find the council supplied lights disappointing enough to be prepared to see their BID contributions used to improve them.
However, there seems to be very little interest in the whole thing - very few votes at all. At present 97 votes have been cast, each business gets 5 votes - not a great turnout.
I see Xmas lights were being discussed - but they are 5th in the voting. Interesting that - shows that at least some of the BID members find the council supplied lights disappointing enough to be prepared to see their BID contributions used to improve them.
Perhaps this recognises that businesses are the main beneficiary of Christmas lights.
I see Xmas lights were being discussed - but they are 5th in the voting. Interesting that - shows that at least some of the BID members find the council supplied lights disappointing enough to be prepared to see their BID contributions used to improve them.
However, there seems to be very little interest in the whole thing - very few votes at all. At present 97 votes have been cast, each business gets 5 votes - not a great turnout.
Not very much to get excited about what with the latest fiasco to hit Newbury. The only illumination that I am interested in at the moment is what is going on at WBC?
As far as I was aware, the voting for what's included in the business plan ends soon. So starting at the top, and working your way down, how many items do you think will be provided?
£60k salary for BID manager. Office costs. Admin costs. £10k a month marketing "brand newbury", and that's a conservative estimate providing you can barter a good raddio / print package. If they decide to go for TV like Festival Place, you are looking at much more.
£80k running costs per year plus £120k marketing budget = £200k. Not much small change after just one item on the list, which is why there were rumours about the levy being 1.5% or even 2%.
Actually you could be right here, it looks like voting on the BID itself finished in April.
Oh my God I don't believe it User has run out of spin and gone insane! Just declared Richard Garvie "might be right". Granville fetch the defibrillator!
Actually you could be right here, it looks like voting on the BID itself finished in April.
The vote for the BID will take place in April, from what I remember. The vote on items that should be included ends soon, in order to prepare the busin ess plan which will ultimately be voted on..
As far as I was aware, the voting for what's included in the business plan ends soon. So starting at the top, and working your way down, how many items do you think will be provided?
£60k salary for BID manager. Office costs. Admin costs. £10k a month marketing "brand newbury", and that's a conservative estimate providing you can barter a good raddio / print package. If they decide to go for TV like Festival Place, you are looking at much more.
£80k running costs per year plus £120k marketing budget = £200k. Not much small change after just one item on the list, which is why there were rumours about the levy being 1.5% or even 2%.
Your figures are askew again RG.
The marketing option costs £6k a month, not £10k, or £75k a year.
You are right it's not very much, as there's so much to do. Reading spend c£250k a year, so Newbury's already at a disadvantage. On top of that the BID team are not targeting any group, they want everyone, from business visitors to ex-Newbury shoppers. So they will have to spend more or it won't work.
The marketing option costs £6k a month, not £10k, or £75k a year.
You are right it's not very much, as there's so much to do. Reading spend c£250k a year, so Newbury's already at a disadvantage. On top of that the BID team are not targeting any group, they want everyone, from business visitors to ex-Newbury shoppers. So they will have to spend more or it won't work.
£6k a month? That's extremely cheap, I'd love to see a break down of that figure as I don't think it will go very far. The BID principle in theory is sound as a model, it's just the implementation in almost every area which lets it down. My fears here are that it's going to be implemented very badly, especially if it's run by the TCP.
Amazing how nobody has denied that the TCP discussed running the BID and failed to put it ion the minutes. So much for being a CIC!!!
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) appears to be aimed at 'new' visitors who don't know where to park. Good job WBC is dealing with this through s106 funding. It's due to happen in the next 6 months, so No further action needed there. (Nil cost to BID)
