I am getting sick and tired of the pillocks posting on this and other forums about the fact that we don't need CCTV and how wonderful WBC are for saving us money.

The CCTV is absolutely essential here in Newbury town centre otherwise we are going to be overrun with criminal activity and anti social behaviour.

Just this week, two police officers attempted to arrest a burglar who was caught, breaking into premises at the rear of Bartholomew Street. Unfortunately he escaped (allegedly he bit one of the arresting officers).

In the old days when we had a fully operational CCTV system, the officers would have been on their radio to the central control room. From there fully trained operatives with their local knowledge would have been able to assist using the cameras to track the culprit as he left the area, guiding in other officers who would hopefully have been in close proximity.

The old days? Newbury survived for centuries without CCTV just fine.

To suggest that the population of Newbury is criminal and anti-social and it's just CCTV preventing them Newbury from being overrun by such behaviour is just wrong.

I say let's save some money and scrap the lot.

Quoted from user23.3

The old days? Newbury survived for centuries without CCTV just fine.

User you really have got your head stuck where the sun don't shine. Newbury has survived for centuries without lots of things, but times have changed.

To suggest that the population of Newbury is criminal and anti-social and it's just CCTV preventing them Newbury from being overrun by such behaviour is just wrong.

Nobody is suggesting that the population of Newbury is criminal or anti social. There is just a small element causing the problems. This problem has to be dealt with and CCTV is one way of keeping it under control.

I say let's save some money and scrap the lot.

If you see a crime being committed or somebody being assaulted in the street are you one of the people who look the other way and say "I didn't see anything". CCTV is essential for gathering evidence where there are scores of people around, but for some strange reason nobody saw anything.

Get a life user and stop trying to defend some of the ridiculous decisions being made by WBC.

Quoted from BrianB

If you see a crime being committed or somebody being assaulted in the street are you one of the people who look the other way and say "I didn't see anything". CCTV is essential for gathering evidence where there are scores of people around, but for some strange reason nobody saw anything.

Get a life user and stop trying to defend some of the ridiculous decisions being made by WBC.

Perhaps it's the climate of fear that CCTV can create, when everyone is watched some feel under suspicion even though they've done no wrong..

I'm far from defending anyone, I'm saying scrap the lot, save some cash and stop playing Big Brother with Newbury.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps it's the climate of fear that CCTV can create, when everyone is watched and some feel under suspicion.

I'm far from defending anyone, I'm saying scrap the lot, save some cash and stop playing Big Brother with Newbury.

What a lot of bunkum this man spouts!

There are 3 people who should be banned from local forums User23, GMR and Richard Garvie perhaps also Simon Kirby for his private vendetta against Newbury Town Council

While I agree with your summary on user23, I don't agree that they shouldn't be allowed to post.

What seems a near certainty is that the council have buggered up the CCTV system and in doing so, possibly lied about the impact of the changes.

BrianB, it is up to people like you to speak up if what you say is a real issue.  Or perhaps  political ambition might have tempered your language lately?

Quoted from scaramouche

What a lot of bunkum this man spouts!

There are 3 people who should be banned from local forums User23, GMR and Richard Garvie perhaps also Simon Kirby for his private vendetta against Newbury Town Council

That's the thing about forums, there's people with opinions different to your own posting on them.

Luckily for most they have enough wit to offer a counterpoint and as a result don't dismiss other's views as bunkum whilst offering none of their own.

Quoted from user23.3

The old days? Newbury survived for centuries without CCTV just fine.

To suggest that the population of Newbury is criminal and anti-social and it's just CCTV preventing them Newbury from being overrun by such behaviour is just wrong.

I say let's save some money and scrap the lot.

In the old days police had whistles? Is that back far enough for you User? CCTV systems have been proved to be a very good tool for helping to reduce crime just as helicopters have proved far more useful than police cars. Of course we can only have what we can afford I do understand this? The point of the issue is that the council has tried to make savings on the CCTV system but instead has allegedly degraded the system so much that it has not even detected a single occurrence since before Christmas. That is not saving money that is actually wasting money? It would have made more sense to say they are scrapping CCTV rather than saying they are upgrading? But of course with elections coming up that would not have gone down very well with the electorate would it?

I do not believe Brian was implying that Newbury's population is full of criminals and anti-socials just that a few persistent offenders, mainly related to getting their fix, are causing mayhem in Newbury and are getting away with it because the council have made a dogs dinner with the CCTV system to cut costs and have failed miserably. Instead of spending man hours trying to cover up they should come clean and ask the taxpayers are they prepared to pay for a decent CCTV system or not? Then we should have an independent inquiry as to exactly what has allegedly gone wrong and why the council has misled the taxpayers and business community alike?

Quoted from BrianB

I am getting sick and tired of the pillocks posting on this and other forums about the fact that we don't need CCTV and how wonderful WBC are for saving us money.

The CCTV is absolutely essential here in Newbury town centre otherwise we are going to be overrun with criminal activity and anti social behaviour.

Just this week, two police officers attempted to arrest a burglar who was caught, breaking into premises at the rear of Bartholomew Street. Unfortunately he escaped (allegedly he bit one of the arresting officers).

In the old days when we had a fully operational CCTV system, the officers would have been on their radio to the central control room. From there fully trained operatives with their local knowledge would have been able to assist using the cameras to track the culprit as he left the area, guiding in other officers who would hopefully have been in close proximity.

Maybe the plan was to say everything was working but lead us to believe it was useless. They could then scrap it and nobody would complain?

Seriously though, we do need CCTV and rather than sending it to Windsor, they should of merged it with the CCTV operation at the Kennet Centre. Might not have saved £250k a year, but would have saved a lot and local knowledge would have been retained.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps it's the climate of fear that CCTV can create, when everyone is watched some feel under suspicion even though they've done no wrong..

I'm far from defending anyone, I'm saying scrap the lot, save some cash and stop playing Big Brother with Newbury.

Surely if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear? Would you also ban police officers from patrolling because you may come under suspicion of doing something illegal?

Most people have stated they would like more police on the beat so surely it would be no different if we had more cameras? They are no different than other tools police use such as radios, cars, dogs, helicopters etc, Just think of all the times a camera in a police car or from a properly working CCTV system has proved beyond doubt the offenders guilt to a court?

It is no use trying to duck and weave User the council have been rumbled and the taxpayers need to know who was to blame and how such a fiasco has been allowed to continue. I know you are trying to create a smoke screen so that it does not come out until after the May elections but someone has to be accountable for this?  

Quoted from Cognosco

Surely if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear? Would you also ban police officers from patrolling because you may come under suspicion of doing something illegal?

Most people have stated they would like more police on the beat so surely it would be no different if we had more cameras? They are no different than other tools police use such as radios, cars, dogs, helicopters etc, Just think of all the times a camera in a police car or from a properly working CCTV system has proved beyond doubt the offenders guilt to a court?

No, bobbies on the beat and cameras are quite different. To use modern terms we've taken a step backwards from an interactive crime prevention presence on the streets to a one way, unquestionable monitoring of everyone and everything.

I don't buy the idea if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear.

Quoted from user23.3

The old days? Newbury survived for centuries without CCTV just fine.

To suggest that the population of Newbury is criminal and anti-social and it's just CCTV preventing them Newbury from being overrun by such behaviour is just wrong.

I say let's save some money and scrap the lot.

User I worked in Bart Street for 2 years..... south end where there are no cameras. I have had scum snatch stock from my window display.  I have been forced to lock myself in the shop on one or two occasions due to the fact there are druggies sitting on my windowsil as high as kites. I have St Barts school kids who think its funny to bring their bikes into the shop and swear and spit at my staff.  Then of course there are the endless piles of dog sh*t to clear up every morning. It IS a minority group - and I know most of their names nowadays.  However, I can assure you it was bloody intimidating cashing and locking up particularly after dark.  If I could have walked out of the premises at night knowing "big brother" was watching me I may well have stayed another year, but quite frankly enough was enough.  

What I would ask you DIRECTLY is would you be happy for your mother/wife/daughter to leave work under those circumstances every night ? ..... or would you feel a little more comfortable if you knew someone somewhere was keeping a helpful eye out for her ?

Quoted from user23.3

I don't buy the idea if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear.

Nor do I, but we do have the DPA for that.  The CCTV system can be useful for more than just law enforcement.  It can be used to monitor all sort of incidents, like accidents and emergencies.

Quoted from user23.3

No, bobbies on the beat and cameras are quite different. To use modern terms we've taken a step backwards from an interactive crime prevention presence on the streets to a one way, unquestionable monitoring of everyone and everything.

I don't buy the idea if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to fear.

So explain to me what is the difference between a bobby watching you with hes own eyes or if he is watching from a couple of miles away through a camera?

Bobbies are not only there to apprehend people are they? They assist with traffic problems if required? They assist with medical emergencies? They can see if a problem may be getting out of hand that may cause a breach of the peace?

Surely a well trained CCTV operator with good local knowledge could do the same but with a far better vantage point than a bobby on the beat?  

Quoted from Cognosco

So explain to me what is the difference between a bobby watching you with hes own eyes or if he is watching from a couple of miles away through a camera?

You have the ability to interact with the bobby face to face, he can ask you questions but you (within reason) can ask him questions back.

I supposed you could stand there shouting at the cameras and they could do one nod for yes, two nods for no.

I think this is fairly unlikely to work though as I've never heard the phrase "If you want to know the time, ask a CCTV camera" used.