What clown at West Berkshire Council decided that a Saturday was the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

Quoted from Archie

What clown at West Berkshire Council decided that a Saturday was the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

I did mention this a while back ...................

Quoted from Archie

What clown at West Berkshire Council decided that a Saturday was the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

The most irksome thing about all of this is that the problem on the bridge and in Bartholomew Street was caused by Southern Gas Networks. I understand that the council have 2 years from the date of the original excavation to claim reimbursement. At this particular location, the 2 years have expired and the current work is being paid for by West Berkshire, in other words you and me.

With regards to the work, if they did it on a weekday, they would cause chaos for rush hour traffic and deliveries. Doing it on a Saturday and Sunday they cause misery for shoppers. Doing it over 3 weekends is ridiculous. They should have chosen 1 week, (Monday to Friday) and got on and done the job without shutting the job down for 5 days and then starting it again. Trouble is common sense has never been a stong point.

Oh dear. As Paula rightly says, she pointed this out ages ago. You think they would be able to see that Brian, what excuse do you think they will give when that is pointed out to them?

Wait's with baited breath untill some one from the Highway's Department comes along with some feeble explanation !!  

Quoted from Archie

What clown at West Berkshire Council decided that a Saturday was the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

In your view what is the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

Monday to Friday it would impact on commuter traffic so Saturday seems ideal to me.

So, over this Friday Saturday and Sunday, they completely closed the London Road outside Waitrose all day, they dug up the Canal Bridge, and carried on with the roadworks in Bart Street.

Phew! thank God it wasn't a race weekend eh? ........oh,.....um.....er.......hang on......


Threep

Quoted from Threepwood

So, over this Friday Saturday and Sunday, they completely closed the London Road outside Waitrose all day, they dug up the Canal Bridge, and carried on with the roadworks in Bart Street.

Yup, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the days with the least traffic in Newbury.

Quoted from user23.3

What is the best day to dig up the canal bridge in Newbury?

You obviously didn't read my previous post. To me being a mere mortal with no NVQ in highway maintenance, I would have gone for a road closure for five days (Monday thru Friday) and done the job in one hit with the possibility of completing by Thursday rather than have 3 disjointed attempts over 3 weekends (six days).

They will be back again next Saturday digging up the northern part of Bartholomew Street.

Quoted from BrianB

You obviously didn't read my previous post. To me being a mere mortal with no NVQ in highway maintenance, I would have gone for a road closure for five days (Monday thru Friday) and done the job in one hit with the possibility of completing by Thursday rather than have 3 disjointed attempts over 3 weekends (six days).

They will be back again next Saturday digging up the northern part of Bartholomew Street.

Monday thru Friday are the busiest days for traffic and would have disrupted the most people.

Have you never wondered why almost all work on the railways is done over a number of weekends. It's for the same reason, the least inconvenience to the least people.

No day is a good day.  More concerned that we are having to pay for the bodged job that British Gas did.  

Quoted from user23.3

Yup, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the days with the least traffic in Newbury.

And the maximum pedestrian flow. You seem to forget that most shoppers have to park in the south of the town now that they have closed Park Way. You only have to listen to the comments of the pedestrians trying to cross the bridge this morning to realise that this has been a further deterrent to shop in Newbury.

Quoted from jay

No day is a good day.  More concerned that we are having to pay for the bodged job that British Gas did.  

Exactly!!!

Quoted from user23.3

Monday thru Friday are the busiest days for traffic and would have disrupted the most people.

Have you never wondered why almost all work on the railways is done over a number of weekends. It's for the same reason, the least inconvenience to the least people.

Traffic would find an alternative route until the work is complete. Pedestrians (shoppers) will find an alternative town next Saturday.

Quoted from BrianB

Traffic would find an alternative route until the work is complete. Pedestrians (shoppers) will find an alternative town next Saturday.

And what about pedestrians during the week, the town's workers, would they have to find an alternative town to work in?

Quoted from user23.3

Yup, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the days with the least traffic in Newbury.

Unless it's race weekend. Which it is.



Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

Unless it's race weekend. Which it is.

I bet there's more traffic on a normal Monday than a race weekend Sunday.

You seem to think the town should plan all its events around the Racecourse, I would disagree.

Quoted from user23.3

I bet there's more traffic on a normal Monday than a race weekend Sunday.

Then Sunday would be a good day to have closed London Road , wouldn't it?

And I'm surprised to see that you think Friday is one of the days with least traffic in Newbury.

"Yup, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, the days with the least traffic in Newbury."


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

Then Sunday would be a good day to have closed London Road , wouldn't it?

Perhaps not in terms of cost.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps not in terms of cost.

Which might not have been such a problem had British Gas been the people paying for it.

About time 'Sunday weighting' was dealt with as well, maybe.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Which might not have been such a problem had British Gas been the people paying for it.

About time 'Sunday weighting' was dealt with as well, maybe.

It's more "Sunday waiting" if they're digging up a road you want to use.

Quoted from user23.3

It's more "Sunday waiting" if they're digging up a road you want to use.

Boom! Boom!

Quoted from Threepwood

Then Sunday would be a good day to have closed London Road , wouldn't it?

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps not in terms of cost.

Which brings us full circle to the original posting, where contractors employed by West Berks are working Saturday and SUNDAY probably at double rates for 3 weekends (six days) when possibly the work could have been completed in 4 weekdays at half the cost (at least) and probably far less inconvenience.

Really user23 you talk yourself round and round in circles with such a centrifugal force that one day you will disappear up...

Quoted from BrianB

Really user23 you talk yourself round and round in circles with such a centrifugal force that one day you will disappear up...

I can't figure out if User is thick, thick skinned, or just a total pillock. He seems to deliberately make himself unpopular on both forums.

Quoted from BrianB

Which brings us full circle to the original posting, where contractors employed by West Berks are working Saturday and SUNDAY probably at double rates for 3 weekends (six days) when possibly the work could have been completed in 4 weekdays at half the cost (at least) and probably far less inconvenience.

Really user23 you talk yourself round and round in circles with such a centrifugal force that one day you will disappear up...

Saturday is rarely double rates now is it, so claiming it could be done for half the cost is a bit silly.

No offence, but sometimes you do offer up some seemingly ill thought out points to support what you say and this time it is an attempt to distance yourself from your allusion that it's not shoppers but workers in Newbury that should "find another town" for a week whilst this happens. Never forget, workers need to work to become shoppers.

Five days between xmas and new year? Just a thought.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Five days between xmas and new year? Just a thought.

I doubt the contractors would be available then.

Well they're available tonight. At this very moment thay are still digging up the Broadway under the glare of arc lamps.


Threep.

Quoted from user23.3

Saturday is rarely double rates now is it, so claiming it could be done for half the cost is a bit silly.

No offence, but sometimes you do offer up some seemingly ill thought out points to support what you say and this time it is an attempt to distance yourself from your allusion that it's not shoppers but workers in Newbury that should "find another town" for a week whilst this happens. Never forget, workers need to work to become shoppers.

He's determined to have the last word however does he not realise that 3 Sundays at double time is equivalent to payment for 6 days, plus 3 saturdays at single time (probably in reality it is time and a half). this equals the equivalent of payment for 9 days.

If the work could be completed in 4 weekdays as I suggest then this is half the labour costs and reduced inconvenience to shoppers. The workers are hardly likely to look for another job for a short period of inconvenience.

Quoted from BrianB

He's determined to have the last word however does he not realise that 3 Sundays at double time is equivalent to payment for 6 days, plus 3 saturdays at single time (probably in reality it is time and a half). this equals the equivalent of payment for 9 days.

If the work could be completed in 4 weekdays as I suggest then this is half the labour costs and reduced inconvenience to shoppers. The workers are hardly likely to look for another job for a short period of inconvenience.

So it looks like more might be spent so that the majority of businesses and workers of Newbury suffer less inconvenience. Sounds like a good news story to me, "Clowns Bring Joy To Newbury" might be the headline.

Personally I think it's a bit heartless to suggest that if your plan was implemented "workers are hardly likely to look for another job for a short period of inconvenience", in other words the workers should just put up with it.

Am I the only person on the forum who actually went into town today?  During the day cars cannot drive down Northbrook Street and all the car parks were still open.  I walked up Northbrook Street (in the middle of the road) moved to the pavement going over the bridge.  Hardly the inconvenience of the decade is it having to move from road to pavement?  The people who were inconvenienced were the bus users as they had to get off at the Post Office or Bus Station rather than the WH Smith stop or Iceland.

Quoted from user23.3

Never forget, workers need to work to become shoppers.

is that why the 'clowns' at WBC inconvenience everyone else?  so they can get to work, a case of "I am alright Jack" I supopose

Quoted from jay

Am I the only person on the forum who actually went into town today?

Doubt it.

I went into the Market place to marvel at the overpriced 'artisan bread' stall.

I left when the two 'erberts playing the guitars started playing 'Ace of Spades' well, I say 'playing' but let's just say Lemmy won't be losing any sleep tonight.


Threep.

Quoted from Threepwood

So, over this Friday Saturday and Sunday, they completely closed the London Road outside Waitrose all day, they dug up the Canal Bridge, and carried on with the roadworks in Bart Street.

Phew! thank God it wasn't a race weekend eh? ........oh,.....um.....er.......hang on......


Threep

Might explain why my sales were down today 2/3rds on this very day last year ? ? FACT

Quoted from user23.3

So it looks like more might be spent so that the majority of businesses and workers of Newbury suffer less inconvenience. Sounds like a good news story to me, "Clowns Bring Joy To Newbury" might be the headline.

Personally I think it's a bit heartless to suggest that if your plan was implemented "workers are hardly likely to look for another job for a short period of inconvenience", in other words the workers should just put up with it.

Now you are just trying to justify the extra expense incurred by the decision to undertake this work at a weekend. "Clowns (AKA WBC) bring joy to Newbury"? you gotta be 'aving a larf.

Quoted from PaulaM

Might explain why my sales were down today 2/3rds on this very day last year ? ? FACT

All of the traders that I spoke to today were down year on year, although not by 2/3rds. One trader said that he was only officially notified with a leaflet from the clowns WBC at 5.00pm yesterday afternoon.

Quoted from BrianB

All of the traders that I spoke to today were down year on year, although not by 2/3rds. One trader said that he was only officially notified with a leaflet from the clowns WBC at 5.00pm yesterday afternoon.

Maybe we are having a double dip - it's just not official yet ?

I am sorry if this spat with user23 is becoming irksome to other members of the forum, but I have seen him twist arguments and slightly amend his posts on so many threads on this forum. It all boils down at the end of the day to the inability of WBC to supervise street excavations (This has been very evident in Bartholomew Street in recent weeks). This work was not properly reinstated when WBC had the chance to claim compensation from Southern Gas Networks.

Hey. Traffic in Reading was even worse, from J11 to the Oracle.

I'd shop online if my broadband wasn't so bad

I know one should never rely on chat board rumour  , but am i correct in saying that a while ago it was suggested that user23 might work for the Highways Department !!

Quoted from Threepwood

I went into the Market place to marvel at the overpriced 'artisan bread' stall.
Threep.

I marvel at those prices as well, especially when there is the often overlooked Empire Cafe / Bakery within a 5 minute walk away, where one can buy similar bread / cakes which in my opinion are higher quality anyway at a fraction of the cost.  

Quoted from BrianB

And the maximum pedestrian flow. You seem to forget that most shoppers have to park in the south of the town now that they have closed Park Way. You only have to listen to the comments of the pedestrians trying to cross the bridge this morning to realise that this has been a further deterrent to shop in Newbury.

Apparently Brian if a shopper can't park within 15 yards of your premises they won't be bothering to at all. So the closure of the bridge ( which is closed to vehicular traffic anyway during the day other than buses )  is a moot point.

Quoted from HJD

I marvel at those prices as well, especially when there is the often overlooked Empire Cafe / Bakery within a 5 minute walk away, where one can buy similar bread / cakes which in my opinion are higher quality anyway at a fraction of the cost.  

Silly, unless you can park right outside the shop then shoppers won't use it. The Empire only has one space outside & if that is taken....

Quoted from old codger

is that why the 'clowns' at WBC inconvenience everyone else?  so they can get to work, a case of "I am alright Jack" I supopose

Bizarre. Don't they suffer the same inconvenience, or lack of thanks to work being done at the weekend, as every weekday worker in Newbury?

If this work was done during the week it's quite obvious far more people and businesses would be inconvenienced.

So yes, thanks to the work being done at the weekend the workers and majority of business in Newbury are "all right Jack".

Quoted from 78

Apparently Brian if a shopper can't park within 15 yards of your premises they won't be bothering to at all. So the closure of the bridge ( which is closed to vehicular traffic anyway during the day other than buses )  is a moot point.

Funny how this claim seems to have been forgotten.

Quoted from user23.3

If this work was done during the week it's quite obvious far more people and businesses would be inconvenienced.

I'm sorry but I don't quite get this.  If the work was done between 9-5pm Mid-week who would be inconvenienced?  I am no footfall expert but I would imagine the amount of shoppers is far less on these days than a Saturday.  The road is closed to vehicles anyway between this time, so the only impact there would be a slight bus journey delay and an extra walk for a few people.  If the traffic flow was restored each evening then I certainly see midweek as the best time to do this.

I still think the main point, about tax payers having to now pay for this work due to WBC incompetence, is being ignored by you User23.  

Quoted from Gumpo

I'm sorry but I don't quite get this.  If the work was done between 9-5pm Mid-week who would be inconvenienced?  I am no footfall expert but I would imagine the amount of shoppers is far less on these days than a Saturday.  The road is closed to vehicles anyway between this time, so the only impact there would be a slight bus journey delay and an extra walk for a few people.  If the traffic flow was restored each evening then I certainly see midweek as the best time to do this.

As we've heard in the past from various sources, apparently shoppers don't walk anywhere so it wouldn't inconvenience them whenever it was done.

It would inconvenience the workers of Newbury and a large amount if businesses however.

Quoted from Gumpo

I'm sorry but I don't quite get this.  If the work was done between 9-5pm Mid-week who would be inconvenienced?  I am no footfall expert but I would imagine the amount of shoppers is far less on these days than a Saturday.  The road is closed to vehicles anyway between this time, so the only impact there would be a slight bus journey delay and an extra walk for a few people.  If the traffic flow was restored each evening then I certainly see midweek as the best time to do this.

There's quite a lot of traffic using the bridge 9-10am. Mind you I think the mid-week option would involve closure for the duration not just during the day.

The real issue is whether they could do the work in 4 consecutive days (as suggested  by BrianB) rather than six days spread over three weekends. If so I suspect that the 4 day option would be best - perhaps Saturday to Tuesday to share the pain.

Not that we will ever know - the three weekends of disruption are on their way.

Quoted from user23.3

As we've heard in the past from various sources, apparently shoppers don't walk anywhere so it wouldn't inconvenience them whenever it was done.

It would inconvenience the workers of Newbury and a large amount if businesses however.

It did inconvenience shoppers on Saturday as it was a right royal bundle to walk across the bridge on Saturday, especially when pushchairs, dogs on leads or wheelchairs came in to play!  

Judging by the traffic volumes this week (half term) the usual traffic that trys to dash across town via this route is considerably less and could quite easily go via the A339 without any inconvenience to the commuter.  And seriously when did WBC ever give two squirts of goats piss about commuters?

Something else I noticed about these works on Saturday was the amount of people they had doing it, or should I say not doing it.  There were about 20 of them in their high viz jackets and only half of them were actually working while the other half were just standing there doing nothing.  

Quoted from Gumpo

Something else I noticed about these works on Saturday was the amount of people they had doing it, or should I say not doing it.  There were about 20 of them in their high viz jackets and only half of them were actually working while the other half were just standing there doing nothing.  

That seems to be normal if funded by public money. I watched the rebuilding of the bit of scrap land at the A339 junction fork to Mill Lane and Sainsbury. Seemed to take forever with lots of plant and as you say, Hi Vis men watching their counterparts who worked spasmodically. The inevitable Sun reading lunchbreak in the cab of the lorry, the digger driver spending a lot of time just watching. Nice work if you can get it.

Quoted from brian

That seems to be normal if funded by public money.

Nice work if you can get it.

It happens in every walk of life in one way or another if you're honest though Brian, dunnit?....  The difference here is that it's obvious.

Not everyone who is office based is an industrious little hamster spinning around the Great Corporate Wheel churning out reams of productive work..!  Plenty out there 'working' away in the equivalent of David Brent's Office who spend day after day staring at a PC screen, with an occasional 'tap' on the keyboard to keep up the pretence of doing some work...

And how many of us working in the private sector have had a 'training day' spent in a warm room snoozing away in front of a presenter and his collection of powerpoint slides or viewfoils??    .......Or a 'Team building Day' which involves a few rounds of golf and a few pints at lunchtime?  

I know I have.... !!  As you say, Nice work if you can get it!!!    

Quoted from Gumpo

It did inconvenience shoppers on Saturday as it was a right royal bundle to walk across the bridge on Saturday, especially when pushchairs, dogs on leads or wheelchairs came in to play!

You forgot the cyclists most of whom refused to dismount.

Quoted from Archie

You forgot the cyclists most of whom refused to dismount.

Did you ask them to dismount?

Quoted from brian

That seems to be normal if funded by public money. I watched the rebuilding of the bit of scrap land at the A339 junction fork to Mill Lane and Sainsbury. Seemed to take forever with lots of plant and as you say, Hi Vis men watching their counterparts who worked spasmodically. The inevitable Sun reading lunchbreak in the cab of the lorry, the digger driver spending a lot of time just watching. Nice work if you can get it.

Very stereotyped comments there Brian ! You need a licence to drive a digger, you also need banksmen who quite literally just stands and watches, health and safety you see.  If you don't break from heavy plant work frequently, you will have white-finger and tintinus by the time you are 35. There are scathing comments from the public (probably a bit like being a traffic warden). Then of course many are killed on motorways, because idiots driving too fast still don't see the Hi Vis jackets. Then of course there is the cold, and the rain. If they don't work in the rain they don't get paid - if that's your idea of Nice Work ??

Quoted from PaulaM

- if that's your idea of Nice Work ??

Yes, watch the guys who are doing it for a living. I mean self employed workers. I believe you fit into that category and probably work many more hours that an employed shopworker and probably for less money.

Quoted from PaulaM

Very stereotyped comments there Brian ! You need a licence to drive a digger, you also need banksmen who quite literally just stands and watches, health and safety you see.  If you don't break from heavy plant work frequently, you will have white-finger and tintinus by the time you are 35. There are scathing comments from the public (probably a bit like being a traffic warden). Then of course many are killed on motorways, because idiots driving too fast still don't see the Hi Vis jackets. Then of course there is the cold, and the rain. If they don't work in the rain they don't get paid - if that's your idea of Nice Work ??

Yeah, it's not like you'd ever get a group of Hi-Viz jackets just standing around doing chuff all, is it?

That's one helluva bukkake, by the looks of it!  

Good to see they've all got their hard helmets on.

there is one guy not wearing a viz jkt, what that you Threep?

Quoted from Threepwood

Yeah, it's not like you'd ever get a group of Hi-Viz jackets just standing around doing chuff all, is it?

there is one guy not wearing a high-viz, was that you threep?

Mebbe he's the man who sells the jackets...


Threep.

That was the patch of ground in the park that the contractors couldn't get grassed over properly. This old photograph was when they employed a bunch of guys in big boots to tread the surface down after the new environmentally friendly grass turf had been laid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2yCUSTNBo


Threep.


*Newburynet is not responsible for external content

Brilliant video.

I'd say your best effort so far is: http://www.youtube.com/user/SaveVickyPark#p/a/u/2/xusqV0vAOfg

Quoted from Threepwood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2yCUSTNBo


Threep.
*Newburynet is not responsible for external content

Threep, your cameraman needs to get into Newbury Town Centre today, where WBC have closed off Wharf Street and Bartholomew Street and are trying to replace the cracked surface in the Market Place in front of all of the market stalls.

The market traders are livid and the taxi drivers in the Wharf are upset because they can't get out of the Wharf because of a long queue of traffic tailing back to Parkway.

Stand by for further justification of this incompetence from user23

Quoted from BrianB

Threep, your cameraman needs to get into Newbury Town Centre today, where WBC have closed off Wharf Street and Bartholomew Street and are trying to replace the cracked surface in the Market Place in front of all of the market stalls.

The market traders are livid and the taxi drivers in the Wharf are upset because they can't get out of the Wharf because of a long queue of traffic tailing back to Parkway.

Stand by for further justification of this incompetence from user23

The market boys can take some consolation from the probability that by 2.00pm, they will have packed up and finished for the day. That was certainly the situation for the last 2 Saturdays in Bridge Street and Bartholomew Street. They will be doing another half day tomorrow.

Quoted from BrianB

Threep, your cameraman needs to get into Newbury Town Centre today, where WBC have closed off Wharf Street and Bartholomew Street and are trying to replace the cracked surface in the Market Place in front of all of the market stalls.

The market traders are livid and the taxi drivers in the Wharf are upset because they can't get out of the Wharf because of a long queue of traffic tailing back to Parkway.

Stand by for further justification of this incompetence from user23

He is busy embroiled in a Party Political debate on the other Website at the moment.  

He only speaks for the officers!!!

Quoted from Threepwood

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2yCUSTNBo


Threep.


*Newburynet is not responsible for external content

Brilliant !

Quoted from PaulaM

Brilliant !

Not really.  Some nice shots of Donington Castle ( blighted by the rather well locally supported by pass ) shots of temporary road signs ( you know there one day gone the next ) and some unpopular rhetoric.
Not brilliant at all.

somebody was a little tired at 2:45am!!! I think it sums it up quite well, what on the video is rhetoric as opposed to fact?

Quoted from 78

Not really.  Some nice shots of Donington Castle ( blighted by the rather well locally supported by pass ) shots of temporary road signs ( you know there one day gone the next ) and some unpopular rhetoric.
Not brilliant at all.

Great advert for Newbury isn't it.

Pretty much every town will have a load of roadworks going on now as they tend to get them all out the way in November so they can keep the roads as clear as they can during December.

This will stay on YouTube throughout December I suspect and serve as a deterrent for people to come and shop here.

A "Brilliant" way of cutting traders profits over the Christmas period.

Quoted from 78

unpopular rhetoric.

Unpopular for some, but others have enjoyed it, so I would say opinion is at least split.

Quoted from richard.garvie

somebody was a little tired at 2:45am!!! I think it sums it up quite well, what on the video is rhetoric as opposed to fact?

The use of diversion signs to imply the town has been ruined.

Quoted from 78

The use of diversion signs to imply the town has been ruined.

I think the implication is that ruination is work in progress, however; how can pictures be classed as rhetoric?

Quoted from user23.3

Great advert for Newbury isn't it.

Pretty much every town will have a load of roadworks going on now as they tend to get them all out the way in November so they can keep the roads as clear as they can during December.

This will stay on YouTube throughout December I suspect and serve as a deterrent for people to come and shop here.

A "Brilliant" way of cutting traders profits over the Christmas period.

................. you're concerned about traders profits ?? Like it or loathe it - it's the truth, and Newbury isn't a hot spot for christmas shoppers, or indeed any other time of the year.

Quoted from PaulaM

................. you're concerned about traders profits ?? Like it or loathe it - it's the truth, and Newbury isn't a hot spot for christmas shoppers, or indeed any other time of the year.

I'll tell you what might help with that, more organised events and promotions like a Christmas Retail Trail. I'll tell you something that might hinder it, videos advertising roadworks in Newbury to the world, when there's no more than an average town in November.

Quoted from user23.3

I'll tell you what might help with that, more organised events and promotions like a Christmas Retail Trail. I'll tell you something that might hinder it, videos advertising roadworks in Newbury to the world, when there's no more than an average town in November.

But it hasn't just been November has it?  It seems to have been like it for 5 years or more.

Quoted from Greenham Common

But it hasn't just been November has it?  It seems to have been like it for 5 years or more.

There's been roadworks far longer than that, ever since we've had gas and electricity in our houses and more recently phones, internet and cable TV.

Just go and look at any local forum and you'll see people complaining about roadworks. Perhaps these services should be withdrawn by the companies that supply them rather than repair the infrastructure. I'm sure their customers would be begging for someone to dig up the road very quickly.

Quoted from user23.3

There's been roadworks far longer than that, ever since we've had gas and electricity in our houses and more recently phones, internet and cable TV.

Just go and look at any local forum and you'll see people complaining about roadworks. Perhaps these services should be withdrawn by the companies that supply them rather than repair the infrastructure. I'm sure their customers would be begging for someone to dig up the road very quickly.

The fact other towns have similar disruption, doesn't negate the problem.  When, however, the roadworks are because of a new cinema or new paving or a new shopping centre, or a new one-way bridge, etc, there are grounds for complaint.

Quoted from Greenham Common

The fact other towns have similar disruption, doesn't negate the problem.  When, however, the roadworks are because of a new cinema or new paving or a new shopping centre, or a new one-way bridge, etc, there are grounds for complaint.

There's not really any grounds for complaint if the roadworks are to repair a bridge that could become unsafe now is there. As for complaining about roadworks when building a new cinema or any improvement in town, if the "me, me, me" lobby had their own way we'd still be living in the 19th century.

I can imagine the letters to the paper in the past must have read "What are they doing, digging up the town to install electricity, don't they know how disruption they're causing? Newbury is a small market town that doesn't require electricity". Luckily those with such short term vision don't often prevail.

Quoted from user23.3

There's not really any grounds for complaint if the roadworks are to repair a bridge that could become unsafe now is there. As for complaining about roadworks when building a new cinema or any improvement in town, if the "me, me, me" lobby had their own way we'd still be living in the 19th century.

Most people I know who complain are people trying to use the services in Newbury, or trying to get to work in Newbury; not shop keepers and the like.

Quoted from user23.3

Luckily those with such short term vision don't often prevail.

Rather like the Sterling Cables and BT tower, which are now too expensive to raze.

Quoted from Greenham Common

I think the implication is that ruination is work in progress, however; how can pictures be classed as rhetoric?

Who do you think you are? Socrates?

Quoted from 78

Who do you think you are? Socrates?

Do you know what rhetoric means?

Quoted from 78

Who do you think you are? Socrates?

I wondered what he did after he retired from playing football for Brazil.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Most people I know who complain are people trying to use the services in Newbury, or trying to get to work in Newbury; not shop keepers and the like.

I wonder how many of them will use Parkway once open?

Quoted from user23.3

I wondered what he did after he retired from playing football for Brazil.I wonder how many of them will use Parkway once open?

Well I know at least one!    I hardly ever use Newbury for shopping (nor the other towns for that matter).

Quoted from Greenham Common

Well I know at least one!    I hardly ever use Newbury for shopping (nor the other towns for that matter).

I'm willing to bet many of the people complaining about the roadworks to build Parkway will be using it by this time next year.

As long as it's finished of course.

Quoted from 78

Who do you think you are? Socrates?

If you remember your Greek Classics, you'll recall that it was Isocrates who was mostly concerned with rhetoric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocrates


Threep.


oh, and none of the road works signs were Parkway signage.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Do you know what rhetoric means?

yes thanks.

Quoted from 78

yes thanks.

Then why abuse its meaning?

Quoted from user23.3

There's not really any grounds for complaint if the roadworks are to repair a bridge that could become unsafe now is there. As for complaining about roadworks when building a new cinema or any improvement in town, if the "me, me, me" lobby had their own way we'd still be living in the 19th century.

I can imagine the letters to the paper in the past must have read "What are they doing, digging up the town to install electricity, don't they know how disruption they're causing? Newbury is a small market town that doesn't require electricity". Luckily those with such short term vision don't often prevail.

me me me pays business rates, which in turn pay your wages.  me me me is not prepared to keep quiet about the mess that is currently Newbury. Newbury has the potential with it's location, history and natural beauty to be a fantastic town. Instead it's a bloody mess and it has been for years.  Parkway needed a revamp, it didn't need millions of gallons of water pumped out of it, nor did it need flats for chavs. Today's "Executive Apartments" will be tomorrow's drug dens.  PS The artists impressions looks EXACTLY like the flats as you exit Festival Place in Basingstoke.

Will I shop in Parkway ? Yes because I live here. Is it a tourist attraction, an asset to the town, a necessary development ? - not in a million years !

I resent your implications that traders are turning shoppers away - we are simply speaking as we find - which is a pretty unpalatable truth.  It's going to take more than a retail trail and a crappy WBC "visit Newbury" website (for which I am asked to pay MORE money) to change the fortunes of this town. But best keep quiet eh ??!!

Quoted from Threepwood

If you remember your Greek Classics, you'll recall that it was Isocrates who was mostly concerned with rhetoric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocrates


Threep.


oh, and none of the road works signs were Parkway signage.

that does not have quite the same ring to it though does it. A bit like 'Who do you think you are Anaximander?'

Quoted from PaulaM

me me me pays business rates, which in turn pay your wages.

I couldn't get past the arrogance of this statement. "Your views don't count because I'm your boss and your better" in other words.

Never not forget we, the shoppers of Newbury pay your wages too and moaning about how bad things are (when of course they're better than most towns) just serves to drive us away.

How's the Christmas Retail Trail coming on by the way? It was your chance to make things better, how did you get on?

Quoted from Greenham Common

Then why abuse its meaning?

I'm not. Rhetoric is an effective way to convey a message. IMHO the use of the images of diversion & road closed signs was implying that was all Newbury had to offer.

Quoted from user23.3

I couldn't get past the arrogance of this statement. "Your views don't count because I'm your boss and your better" in other words.

Never not forget we, the shoppers of Newbury pay your wages too and constant moaning about how bad things are (when of course they're better than most towns) just serves to drive us away.

How's the Christmas Retail Trail coming on by the way?

Oh I am sure you "get past" arrogance on a daily basis !  

My moaning doesn't drive the shoppers away - it's WBC inability to listen that's the problem - YOU are a prime example of this !

Christmas retail trail - sweet FA by the looks of it ?

Quoted from 78

I'm not. Rhetoric is an effective way to convey a message.

Using written language yes, but I fail to see rhetoric in images.  People are left to draw their own conclusions, so it is not really effective use of language as it is ambiguous.  As the OP said: where is the rhetoric in statements of fact?  You are right that the images are designed to suggest a large amount of roadworks, but I don't think that is rhetoric, that is fact in my mind.

Quoted from PaulaM

My moaning doesn't drive the shoppers away - it's WBC inability to listen that's the problem - YOU are a prime example of this !

Christmas retail trail - sweet FA by the looks of it ?

Of course it does, it's negative advertising of the town.

Here's the problem in a nutshell, you had a chance to make things better by setting up a Christmas retail trail which you considered a good idea, you even contacted Newbury Sound and they were up for helping you. What happened, sweet "FA by the looks of it" and who's fault is it in your view, "WBC's inability to listen".

You really don't help yourself, quite literally.

Quoted from user23.3

I couldn't get past the arrogance of this statement. "Your views don't count because I'm your boss and your better" in other words.

I didn't read that in PaulaM's post, but aren't you in danger of contradicting your own point by the way you criticise criticism?

Quoted from user23.3

Of course it does, it's negative advertising of the town.

Here's the problem in a nutshell, you had a chance to make things better by setting up a Christmas retail trail which you considered a good idea, you even contacted Newbury Sound and they were up for helping you. What happened, sweet "FA by the looks of it" and who's fault is it in your view, "WBC's inability to listen".

You really don't help yourself, quite literally.

I have to hand it to you, you are very good at bitching at people to detract from the facts - lets just rewind - this is what I said ..........

me me me pays business rates, which in turn pay your wages.  me me me is not prepared to keep quiet about the mess that is currently Newbury. Newbury has the potential with it's location, history and natural beauty to be a fantastic town. Instead it's a bloody mess and it has been for years.  Parkway needed a revamp, it didn't need millions of gallons of water pumped out of it, nor did it need flats for chavs. Today's "Executive Apartments" will be tomorrow's drug dens.  PS The artists impressions looks EXACTLY like the flats as you exit Festival Place in Basingstoke.

Will I shop in Parkway ? Yes because I live here. Is it a tourist attraction, an asset to the town, a necessary development ? - not in a million years !

I resent your implications that traders are turning shoppers away - we are simply speaking as we find - which is a pretty unpalatable truth.  It's going to take more than a retail trail and a crappy WBC "visit Newbury" website (for which I am asked to pay MORE money) to change the fortunes of this town. But best keep quiet eh ??!!

You haven't ACTUALLY commented on anything I said above, you just go all "offended" to take the heat off the facts - yet again.

Quoted from PaulaM

You haven't ACTUALLY commented on anything I said above, you just go all "offended" to take the heat off the facts - yet again.

The facts are that you had a chance to start your own initiative to bring in new business to your shop (and many others too) of which "sweet FA by the looks" seems to be happening. You could have put your shop at the head of the trail bringing in lots of new business and even did the preparatory work in seeing if Newbury Sound would be interested, and they were. Well done you, no irony or sarcasm intended.

So what happened to this project of yours? I'm genuinely interested to know why you didn't follow it through.

Quoted from user23.3

The facts are that you had a chance to start your own initiative to bring in new business to your shop (and many others too) of which "sweet FA by the looks" seems to be happening. You could have put your shop at the head of the trail bringing in lots of new business and even did the preparatory work in seeing if Newbury Sound would be interested, and they were. Well done you, no irony or sarcasm intended.

So what happened to this project of yours? I'm genuinely interested to know why you didn't follow it through.

The facts are, you had an idea, which I thought was good, I put it to Newbury Sound and Town Centre Events and it appears they have done nothing with the idea. If I organised the trail it would probably be a complete disaster - for the following reasons:-

1. I am a shopkeeper and mother of young children so wouldn't be able to dedicate the time it deserves.
2. I suspect my competitors would doubt my motives - particularly as you said yourself - I could put my shop at the head of the trail.
3. I don't "pack much punch" and have no marketing skills whatsoever  
4. I hoped someone with far more experience would have taken up the challenge.

So there are your answers, now can you GENUINELY answer my questions ?  

Was the Parkway Development in it's current form the only option ?
Do you PERSONALLY find the Pavillion appealing ?
Is it really necessary to carry out all of the roadworks on that video at the same time ?

Quoted from PaulaM

The facts are, you had an idea, which I thought was good, I put it to Newbury Sound and Town Centre Events and it appears they have done nothing with the idea. If I organised the trail it would probably be a complete disaster - for the following reasons:-

1. I am a shopkeeper and mother of young children so wouldn't be able to dedicate the time it deserves.
2. I suspect my competitors would doubt my motives - particularly as you said yourself - I could put my shop at the head of the trail.
3. I don't "pack much punch" and have no marketing skills whatsoever  
4. I hoped someone with far more experience would have taken up the challenge.

So there are your answers, now can you GENUINELY answer my questions ?  

Was the Parkway Development in it's current form the only option ?
Do you PERSONALLY find the Pavillion appealing ?
Is it really necessary to carry out all of the roadworks on that video at the same time ?

Disappointing that you didn't do more with it yourself to improve the town and have come up with a list of excuses why you didn't, yet are still moan about others not doing so. Let's leave it there. I don't really want to get personal, it does explain a lot to me though and I suspect you're far from being alone among those who moan.


Was the Parkway Development in it's current form the only option ?
No idea, and I don't know why you think I would know.

Do you PERSONALLY find the Pavillion appealing ?
The design, yes, but then I like the new Media Centre at Lord's which looks similar-ish and a few traditionalists dislike it.

Is it really necessary to carry out all of the roadworks on that video at the same time ?
I suspect they're trying to get them out the way before December to help traders, so yes, just a guess though.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Using written language yes, but I fail to see rhetoric in images.  People are left to draw their own conclusions, so it is not really effective use of language as it is ambiguous.  As the OP said: where is the rhetoric in statements of fact?  You are right that the images are designed to suggest a large amount of roadworks, but I don't think that is rhetoric, that is fact in my mind.

But by repeating the same images, you begin to reinforce a sterotype. Socrates understood that the highest form of Rhetoric was persuasion, not the search for, or propagation of truth. Get those you converse with to believe you, even if what you say is a lie.  Do that & you have mastered Rhetoric.

I think anyone would agree that getting caught up in diversions and road closures is a major pain.. When there's so many on at the same time it's an even bigger embuggerance as even the SatNav struggles to cope.... But this type of work can't be done overnight and it comes down to the old 'No Pain No Gain'....

At least it's a sign that the roads are being worked on.  Have you noticed how many stretches of road seem to have been completely re-surfaced recently....


There are a few areas around the country that would be jealous of the amount of work that seems to be happening in our district..

http://www.cumberlandnews.co.u.....=0&commentview=1
~FEARS ROAD REPAIRS COULD STOP IF CUMBRIA COUNCIL RUNS OUT OF MONEY~

Or from Swansea... "PART of a suburban street in Swansea has become the first road in Britain to close because of cuts in public spending. The permanent closure of Trewyddfa Road to through traffic because repairs are unaffordable comes a year after highway chiefs warned that Welsh councils might soon have to shut roads because they could not guarantee safety."

On the whole I'd rather the council spent the money on repairs quickly, even if that means a temporary inconvenience, before funding from Central Govt dries up completely...

Quoted from spartacus

I think anyone would agree that getting caught up in diversions and road closures is a major pain.. When there's so many on at the same time it's an even bigger embuggerance as even the SatNav struggles to cope.

On the whole I'd rather the council spent the money on repairs quickly, even if that means a temporary inconvenience, before funding from Central Govt dries up completely...

Good point. (and you'd have thought WBC would be aware of this wouldn't you)?

The road works on Black Boys Bridge were paid for by WBC because although it was originally a Southern Gas cock-up, WBC missed the cut off date to claim reimbursement. (2 whole years in fact).

Does this sound to you like WBC being careful or competent with our money?


Threep.

Quoted from 78

But by repeating the same images, you begin to reinforce a sterotype. Socrates understood that the highest form of Rhetoric was persuasion, not the search for, or propagation of truth. Get those you converse with to believe you, even if what you say is a lie.

But is it a lie?

Quoted from user23.3

Disappointing that you didn't do more with it yourself to improve the town

........... because I pay business rates for the "experts" to do it for me ?

Quoted from Greenham Common

But is it a lie?

Of course.

Quoted from 78

Of course.

Of course what: it is, or it isn't?

Some pictures do not amount to a lie.  Is the text a lie?  If you chose to interpret the pictures into something that isn't true, then that is surely down to you.  Again, I think you are abusing the meaning of rhetoric.

Newbury has seemingly suffered a continuous succession of roadworks in and around town, whether maintenance or enhancements.  The cinema, for instance took much longer than what was announced at the beginning.  As did the works at the Robin Hood.

If this is because Newbury is old and worn-out, perhaps the town is passed its use by date and explains the relative popularity of retail parks and Hypermegamarkets... and the Internet.

Quoted from PaulaM

........... because I pay business rates for the "experts" to do it for me ?

You pay business rates to central government which go to fund many things, including paying off the national debt. Some of it finds its way back here, but as we're seen as a southern, affluent area a larger percentage goes to those deemed more needy.

As I understand of what I've seen of the coalition's plans in the media, business folk like yourself will increasingly be asked to step in where the "experts" in the public sector, as you put it, once ran things. Instead of moaning from the sidelines you will be expected to do things for yourself, such as a retail trail, if you want to make things better. There's potentially great benefit to business if done right however if you're not willing to put in the work the wrath of the public could be turned on you and the moaners will become the moaned at.

This is just a personal interpretation and I could be entirely wrong of course.

Quoted from user23.3

You pay business rates to central government which go to fund many things, including paying off the national debt. Some of it finds its way back here, but as we're seen as a southern, affluent area a larger percentage goes to those deemed more needy.

As I understand of what I've seen of the coalition's plans in the media, business folk like yourself will increasingly be asked to step in where the "experts" in the public sector, as you put it, once ran things. Instead of moaning from the sidelines you will be expected to do things for yourself, such as a retail trail, if you want to make things better. There's potentially great benefit to business if done right however if you're not willing to put in the work the wrath of the public could be turned on you and the moaners will become the moaned at.

This is just a personal interpretation and I could be entirely wrong of course.

I think that it is clear now that here will be more involvement in local affairs by local residents. What this is going to mean is that local government will need to be better at the core functions, stop getting involved in the periphal functions and pet projects.

What User23 regards as moaning is simply the result of an inability at this stage of local residents and businesses to have an influence on the ways West Berkshire Council approach local affairs. I sincerely hope that in the furure when locals residents can be more involved, they will be able to be less prescriptive and more interested in the opionions of those affected.

Quoted from Bartholomew

I think that it is clear now that here will be more involvement in local affairs by local residents. What this is going to mean is that local government will need to be better at the core functions, stop getting involved in the periphal functions and pet projects.

What User23 regards as moaning is simply the result of an inability at this stage of local residents and businesses to have an influence on the ways West Berkshire Council approach local affairs. I sincerely hope that in the furure when locals residents can be more involved, they will be able to be less prescriptive and more interested in the opionions of those affected.

Paula had a chance to get involved with improving things for retailers but came up with a list of reasons why she couldn't. She's still moaning about how bad things are but she could have helped her and her community out.

I don't really want to pick on her though as I suspect there are many who currently ask the public sector to improve things, but will be reluctant to do it for themselves and others when asked to in the future. How many people actually stand in elections for example? Last General Election there were just two independents.

Let's hope I'm proved wrong.

Ok, User23, supposing Paula goes out and promotes (or runs) this "Retail Trail" as you put it, she is away from her premises, but the trail is sucessful to a degree, and there are punters queueing at her door!

Who's going to serve them, you? as Paula is busy promoting the Trail.
Isn't she already paying rates towards the privilege of free trading?

A simple solution. Why not let traders trade unhindered, shoppers commute into town unhindered, and direct your energies into promoting a prosperous and profitable town, instead of condemning traders suffering from intolerable hinderances. Isn't this the way it used to be - when trade was good?

I remember the days when the town revolved around a Town Clerk, working part-time, who also had a seperate occupation to provide for him and his family.

Surely it is in the interests of the council to promote the good of the town, and to ensure that traders who bring their wares to the shoppers of Newbury can do so without hinderance. The prosperity of the town depends on money changing hands in ALL directions, not just in yours!

Quoted from LocalRes

Ok, User23, supposing Paula goes out and promotes (or runs) this "Retail Trail" as you put it, she is away from her premises, but the trail is sucessful to a degree, and there are punters queueing at her door!

Who's going to serve them, you? as Paula is busy promoting the Trail.
Isn't she already paying rates towards the privilege of free trading?

A simple solution. Why not let traders trade unhindered, shoppers commute into town unhindered, and direct your energies into promoting a prosperous and profitable town, instead of condemning traders suffering from intolerable hinderances. Isn't this the way it used to be - when trade was good?

I remember the days when the town revolved around a Town Clerk, working part-time, who also had a seperate occupation to provide for him and his family.

Surely it is in the interests of the council to promote the good of the town, and to ensure that traders who bring their wares to the shoppers of Newbury can do so without hinderance. The prosperity of the town depends on money changing hands in ALL directions, not just in yours!

Work on the retail trail could be split amongst the participants. This, I believe is what the Big Society is all about. Like it or not it's on its way and I suspect the public will be expecting traders to do more for them as the public sector does less. No longer will they be able to blame imagined "intolerable hinderances" for their problems.

Less "hindered" business has other implications of course, perhaps allowing the utility companies to dig up the road more freely when and where they wish.

I suspect you might be exaggerating when you imply one Town Clerk fixed the roads and street lighting, ran the public libraries, ran whatever social provision the council looked after and everything else provided by the public sector.

Quoted from user23.3

Work on the retail trail could be split amongst the participants. This, I believe is what the Big Society is all about. Like it or not it's on its way and I suspect the public will be expecting traders to do more for them as the public sector does less. No longer will they be able to blame imagined "intolerable hinderances" for their problems.

I suspect you might be exaggerating if you think one Town Clerk fixed the roads and street lighting, ran the public libraries, ran whatever social provision the council looked after and everything else provided by the public sector.

In the past few weeks User 23 has accused me of being greedy, arrogant and lazy - yet we have never met to my knowledge ?

Quoted from PaulaM

In the past few weeks User 23 has accused me of being greedy, arrogant and lazy - yet we have never met to my knowledge ?

I'm not accusing you of anything, bar perhaps a bit of arrogance with one statement in this thread.

I'm saying that your responses are perhaps indicative of the problems we are to face in the future.

Quoted from PaulaM

In the past few weeks User 23 has accused me of being greedy, arrogant and lazy - yet we have never met to my knowledge ?

Well if you are, you will have a lot in common!  

Quoted from user23.3

I'm not accusing you of anything, bar perhaps arrogance with one statement in this thread.

I'm saying that your responses are perhaps indicative of the problems we are to face in the future.

I could be wrong... nothing personal... just a guess... but I'll leave it hear as I don't want it to to get personal... apart from a bit of arrogance...  

Quoted from user23.3

Less "hindered" business has other implications of course, perhaps allowing the utility companies to dig up the road more freely when and where they wish.

As opposed to allowing the utility companies to dig up the road more freely when and where they wish and then us paying to put it right after they leave a mess?

Quoted from PaulaM

3. I don't "pack much punch" and have no marketing skills whatsoever  

How do you go about promoting your business then?

I suspect that this is the case for many independent retailers who seem to rely purely on word-of-mouth to promote their business. Chain stores will spend many millions of pounds a year on advertising and marketing and for the most part, that is why they have many stores, because unless you sell something that people absolutely cannot do without, you need to convince people to come to your shop and buy.

Times are hard for everyone, and because of this, I would have thought that the town's independent retailers would have jumped on the chance for self-promotion with the likes of a retail trail or similar. But many see it as too much hassle, or that it requires too much from in terms of time or money to set it up, without thinking of the positive consequences for them if it is successful. And that is the main issue it seems. Large nationwide retailers see self-promotion and marketing as nothing other than a necessity for survival and success. Whereas many independents see it as an expense and a hassle which provides no benefit that they can see immediately.

If you look at some of the other threads, Paula has actively gone out leafletting which got her some negative feedback from some on this board. I think Paula has shown that she isn't prepared to sit back and just hope people spread the word, but at the same time why should she run a town centre wide project? Paula is one trader, so in my opinion it would be grossly unfair to say she isn't dedicated to the cause. User 23, if Paula agreed to get involved in this project, who is going to support her? I can't see many other stepping forward to do it?

Quoted from massifheed

Times are hard for everyone, and because of this, I would have thought that the town's independent retailers would have jumped on the chance for self-promotion with the likes of a retail trail or similar. But many see it as too much hassle, or that it requires too much from in terms of time or money to set it up, without thinking of the positive consequences for them if it is successful. And that is the main issue it seems. Large nationwide retailers see self-promotion and marketing as nothing other than a necessity for survival and success. Whereas many independents see it as an expense and a hassle which provides no benefit that they can see immediately.

Isn't a retail trail the sort of thing they hire a town centre events manager to organise?  I would have thought it would be more effective in promoting local trade than a one off event for a couple of hours in the Market Place - such as the recent Halloween thingy.

Quoted from richard.garvie

I can't see many other stepping forward to do it?

Then that displays badly on the retailers who can't be bothered to get involved, doesn't it? I imagine those same retailers will happily moan about WBC, roadworks, the marketplace, Parkway, or anything they can think of as a reason their takings are down, rather than admit it could be that they are putting little effort themselves into promoting their own business.

I said in the "acceptable marketing" thread that I thought it was good PaulaM was doing something positive rather than nothing at all. And I don't think that anyone would suggest that she take on promoting all the local busineses on her own, but by her own admission, she liked the idea of a town trail but then just passed the idea on to someone else. And it seems as if she is now criticising Newbury Sound and TCE for not picking up the idea and doing more with it.

Also, I find it pretty bold to suggest that retailers moaning isn't going to put customers off. I think you'll find that's exactly what it does.

Quoted from blackdog

Isn't a retail trail the sort of thing they hire a town centre events manager to organise?

To a point I would have thought so, yes. Although I would guess that the TCE manager would suggest that the role isn't there just to promote town centre retailers so they don't have to promote themselves. I would sooner see the TCE manager exclusively doing things to bring people into the town. So that would mean making use of the Marketplace, for instance. A retail trail would fit in with this role. However, while it should be the responsibility of the TCE manager to put on events that make visiting Newbury appealing, it should be down to individual businesses to entice customers into their shops via their own forms of marketing.

I would guess that even BrianB would say that the Newbury Retailers Association is there to promote the interests of Newbury retailers, and not the businesses themselves?

Quoted from massifheed

Then that displays badly on the retailers who can't be bothered to get involved, doesn't it? I imagine those same retailers will happily moan about WBC, roadworks, the marketplace, Parkway, or anything they can think of as a reason their takings are down, rather than admit it could be that they are putting little effort themselves into promoting their own business.

I said in the "acceptable marketing" thread that I thought it was good PaulaM was doing something positive rather than nothing at all. And I don't think that anyone would suggest that she take on promoting all the local busineses on her own, but by her own admission, she liked the idea of a town trail but then just passed the idea on to someone else. And it seems as if she is now criticising Newbury Sound and TCE for not picking up the idea and doing more with it.

Also, I find it pretty bold to suggest that retailers moaning isn't going to put customers off. I think you'll find that's exactly what it does.

Are you User 23's twin?  I personally as a shopper wouldn't be too interested in a trail Paula so I wouldn't waste your time.  

Quoted from Gumpo

I personally as a shopper wouldn't be too interested in a trail Paula so I wouldn't waste your time.  

Great, well, stand down everyone. Gumpo's not interested in a town trail so it's not worth doing. Thanks for that.  

Quoted from massifheed

Great, well, stand down everyone. Gumpo's not interested in a town trail so it's not worth doing. Thanks for that.  

Just sounds naff to me.  Now a Newbury Christmas Market would be a much better idea.  Went to the one in Hamburg a few years back and it was cracking.  What better than for a Market town to have a proper Christmas Market.  

Quoted from Gumpo

Just sounds naff to me.  Now a Newbury Christmas Market would be a much better idea.  Went to the one in Hamburg a few years back and it was cracking.  What better than for a Market town to have a proper Christmas Market.  

I think the town trail was just an idea that was thrown around as an example of something that could be done. I agree that a Christmas market would be good, but then I seem to remember some people on here saying that unless you could make it as good as places like Bath and Winchester then it wasn't worth doing. Also, I think that the traders for these markets tend to stick with the same towns each year.

Quoted from massifheed

Great, well, stand down everyone. Gumpo's not interested in a town trail so it's not worth doing. Thanks for that.  

Neither am I. Totally naff idea. Why would an IT manager have a clue about retail marketing? Whenever a local retailer dares to put his head above the parapet here, he calls them greedy & lazy whilst pocketing a fat salary and pension himself for local government effort - i.e. not much.

Quoted from 26

Neither am I. Totally naff idea.

Well, that settles it then!  

Quoted from 26

Neither am I. Totally naff idea. Why would an IT manager have a clue about retail marketing? Whenever a local retailer dares to put his head above the parapet here, he calls them greedy & lazy whilst pocketing a fat salary and pension himself for local government effort - i.e. not much.

Thank you ! ......... and thanks for all your comments, I see it as follows:-

Retail Trail - sounds a bit "school PTA" but I would have participated - but would need help.
Christmas Market - Love the idea, and have suggested it before, infact if anyone here is seriously interested in persuing this for 2011 I would love to hear from them !
Newbury Sound - I use frequently and am most certainly NOT slagging them off - in my opinion they are currently the ONLY viable media in West Berks at present.
Newbury Weekly News - Disasterous (apologies if anyone here works for them)
Buzz Magazine - Expensive, didn't turn up for their appointment . . . and was then adamant they did - worrying  
Leafleting - went down like a cup of sick with this forum's users !
Town Centre Events - the clue is in the name !
Whinging about roadworks - I only repeat what my customers are telling me.

So what the ferk else can I do ?????!!!!