I would like to echo the calls of Greenham Parish Council for a full review of delegated powers regarding planning applications (http://newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=14562). Not only is there a lack of consistency between decisions made by officers at West Berkshire, but the current system is open to abuse of power by officers and allegations of corruption. If elected as a District Councillor next year, one of my first priorities will be to call for a full review of planning decisions made since the new arrangements were introduced in 2004. This is a major issue for me, with the allocation of affordable housing at the Racecourse already diluted by 5% to 30% and the LDF obligation of a minimum percentage commitment with regards to this development likely to be removed very shortly, our elected members are sitting back drinking subsidised drinks whilst unelected officers make all of the key decisions.

It's time for elected members to stand up and be counted. They get paid an allowance to represent those who vote for them. If they can't be bothered to put the leg work in, RESIGN and let someone else take your position.

"Man up"?

Isn't that a bit sexist given many of them are women?

Quoted from richard.garvie

.... the current system is open to abuse of power by officers and allegations of corruption.
...... our elected members are sitting back drinking subsidised drinks whilst unelected officers make all of the key decisions.
.......If they can't be bothered to put the leg work in, RESIGN and let someone else take your position.

Slightly off key remarks.
My view is that if the professionals are making the decisions then that's probably how it should be. The councillors have no expertise, so the chances of a bum decision is more likely if they, the elected members made them all. Would they have the time to review or decide all applications. It would become a full time job and the pay in that event, is not so good.
Should you be elected, how many hours a week do you think would be a fair allocation of your time.

I think that the officers should do what they are there to do... ADVISE!!!

And to respond to your other points, I think a council that better represents ALL SECTONS of the community would enhance the advice of the officers. At least then decisions can be taken based on local opinion. But that's right, elected members rarely talk to the people that elected them. As for a fair allocation of time, if I was on the planning committee I would expect to read up on the officers report over a couple of evenings before the planning meeting and make my decisions based on the advise from the officers. If there were any applications in my ward, I would do some research on each case and maybe speak to neighbours of the proposed site etc. If you don't want to be on the planning committee because you don't have time, don't do it!!!

The three bits of my initial post you highlighted:

"the current system is open to abuse of power by officers and allegations of corruption. "

I'm not saying there has been corruption, but when I talk to everyday folk in the street, they talk of "brown envelopes" and the like. Whether or not it is true, the fact that the electorate think that is damning of the current administration. My own view is that I would like a review of all decisions, but mainly the Saddleworth allocation (which was rated the least suitable option out of all of them apparently), the issue of affordable housing and dilution of said allocation at Newbury Racecourse and then the Parkway decision and why there is no provision of affordable housing.

"our elected members are sitting back drinking subsidised drinks whilst unelected officers make all of the key decisions."

So you are saying that alcohol is not subsidised in the bar?

"If they can't be bothered to put the leg work in, RESIGN and let someone else take your position."

Exactly what I said. If they can't be bothered to pull their finger out, let somebody else do it. You can meet up to discuss cycling or whatever else floats your boat somewhere else.

Wholesale changes are needed at West Berks, starting with the elected members. If your councillor does not work hard for you, don't elect them this time round.

Quoted from user23.3

"Man up"?

Isn't that a bit sexist given many of them are women?

I do apologise. However, the term "man up" is used by women and men alike and is often directed regardless of sex. Maybe I should have said "get a grip" / "pull their finger out"/ "sort themselves out"... all has the same meaning to me!!!

Quoted from richard.garvie

"our elected members are sitting back drinking subsidised drinks whilst unelected officers make all of the key decisions."

So you are saying that alcohol is not subsidised in the bar?

Which bar are you talking about?

You tell me User23, you work there.

Quoted from richard.garvie

My own view is that I would like a review of all decisions, but mainly the Saddleworth allocation (which was rated the least suitable option out of all of them apparently),

Saddleworth???

Do you mean Sandleford?

Yes, my mistake!!! Been a long weekend!!!

Quoted from richard.garvie

You tell me User23, you work there.

No, I asked you the question, which bar are you talking about?

Quoted from richard.garvie

Yes, my mistake!!! Been a long weekend!!!

But Sandleford was so obviously the best of the locations looked at for development.  

If  (and it's a big if) you accept that there has to be a large 2000 home new development somewhere around Newbury/Thatcham then Sandleford is the best place to put it.

Quoted from richard.garvie

I think that the officers should do what they are there to do... ADVISE!!!

Yeah, right.

Meanwhile, back in the real world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIto5mwDLxo&feature=fvw

A bit too late for tears over Greenham.

Richard, might it be easier and cheaper for us all if you just moved somewhere else where these things don't get you all hot under the collar? East Ilsley's nice this time of year, I hear!

Hold on a second, all I'm saying is that I too would call for a full and independent review. What have people got to hide??? Public perception of planning decisions in West Berks is that there is a culture of corruption and misconduct. Unless there is an enquiry, how do you suppose that the current administration regains local confidence???

What gets me hot under the collar is elected members turning a blind eye as affordable housing allocations are reduced or removed altogether. A lack of plan for the survival of the Kennet Centre as a viable business, the closure of local pubs at the expense of national chains that are heavy discounters and encourage binge drinking. It's about time elected members took the initiative and gave some leadership to the officers at West Berks, instead of allowing themselves to be led down the garden path.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Hold on a second, all I'm saying is that I too would call for a full and independent review. What have people got to hide??? Public perception of planning decisions in West Berks is that there is a culture of corruption and misconduct. Unless there is an enquiry, how do you suppose that the current administration regains local confidence???

What gets me hot under the collar is elected members turning a blind eye as affordable housing allocations are reduced or removed altogether. A lack of plan for the survival of the Kennet Centre as a viable business, the closure of local pubs at the expense of national chains that are heavy discounters and encourage binge drinking. It's about time elected members took the initiative and gave some leadership to the officers at West Berks, instead of allowing themselves to be led down the garden path.

Hi Richard. Please could you answer the question about which bar you were talking about?

User23, I can see that you may have a need to move discussion away from independent reviews and investigations, but this is silly. The members suite on the 2nd floor at Market Street is where members often meet for a tipple, which is strange as there I don't believe there is a licence for serving alcohol at Market Street. As I've not been lucky enough to share a drink and discuss local issues, I couldn't tell you if it's a fully stocked bar as you would find in a pub or whether it's just a spirits cupboard. The fact is, alcohol is provided in the members area.

Maybe now you can address why you are so against an independent study into the decisions of the past six years??? It's the only way we can restore faith in local politics, but maybe you don't want that. Hard working, accountable elected members who want to guide policy and address the problems of the past would be a threat to the unaccountable officers and their thirst for power!!!

A lack of plan for the survival of the Kennet Centre as a viable business, the closure of local pubs at the expense of national chains that are heavy discounters and encourage binge drinking

What plans would you envisage for 'saving' the Kennet Centre?

Judging by the numbers filling the Diamond Tap, I'd say that it was exactly what the people of Newbury have been waiting for.

I'm all for having a spoons, but two will pretty much kill off some of the smaller pubs. As for the Kennet Centre, I have my own ideas, but none of my thoughts matter right now. The fact is, the Council didn't really consider the effect it would have or they would have their own plans in place to protect it.

Quoted from richard.garvie

I'm all for having a spoons, but two will pretty much kill off some of the smaller pubs. As for the Kennet Centre, I have my own ideas, but none of my thoughts matter right now. The fact is, the Council didn't really consider the effect it would have or they would have their own plans in place to protect it.

In otherwords - you have no ideas for the Kennet Centre.

If you really think that the spoons will kill off smaller pubs you can't have a high regard for the quality of the smaller pubs or the nature of the pub going public.

Quoted from richard.garvie

Maybe now you can address why you are so against an independent study into the decisions of the past six years??? It's the only way we can restore faith in local politics, but maybe you don't want that. Hard working, accountable elected members who want to guide policy and address the problems of the past would be a threat to the unaccountable officers and their thirst for power!!!

How much will this study cost us all? I presume you already have someone in mind to do it?

Planning applications here in West Berkshire (Newbury in particular) are dependent on two major criteria:

1. The architect that you choose

2. Your section 106 contribution

Quoted from richard.garvie

User23,
Maybe now you can address why you are so against an independent study into the decisions of the past six years??? It's the only way we can restore faith in local politics, but maybe you don't want that. Hard working, accountable elected members who want to guide policy and address the problems of the past would be a threat to the unaccountable officers and their thirst for power!!!

Quoted from user23.3

How much will this study cost us all? I presume you already have someone in mind to do it?

If we can sack the incompetent and those who were involved in fiddling the figures to get the desired outcome we may save money User 23.

To answer your point User23, the cost would be between 35,000 and 100,000 and I suggest would be carried out by a government inspector. I don't personally know anyone who could carry out a review like this, nor do I have any interest other than discovering exactly why these mistakes have been made and if any wrongdoing has taken place. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, have been in London all afternoon / evening.

As for the Kennet Centre and my other campaign ideas, I don't want to write them here before I find out if I will be standing as an independent or as part of a party. If there is a group of people who want to have a look at the hard copy, I am more than happy to treat you to a coffee and let you take a peek. Unlike the current administration, my thoughts are around taking on the big issues affecting West Berks, and cutting waste with the local authority. There are some pretty big savings that can be made in other areas too, but the current administration have had years to formulate a plan do deal with the issues and they have done nothing. That is why I hope the issues I raise when I publish my vision for how I'd like to see West Berkshire over the next five years will be warmly accepted. Not everyone will like what I suggest, but I am not afraid to tackle the bigger issues responsibly. Not only will I publish those goals in the second week of October, I will also continue to challenge the current administration on issues that arise before the election. I see that the administration finally commented on the LDF consultation today, weeks after it was placed on the website with little promotion. If I hadn't kicked up a fuss, would the issue of reduction in affordable housing at the racecourse been discussed in the news???

I have given up all business interests in West Berkshire to persue improving the area in which I live. Nobody can accuse me of a conflict of interests. All I want to do is make a difference. People like User23 will continue to argue and distort what I write. But maybe that is because they are somebody who has something to hide.

How are you going to get the budget for it based on such a large range presumably you'll ask for £100,000 as that's how much it might eventually cost, where will this budget come from?

Can you assure all the tax payers of West Berkshire that if your enquiry costs a penny more than £100,000 you will "man up" and resign?

Will you also resign if it finds nothing untoward as you've wasted a six figure sum of taxpayers money?

It's not about finding something untoward, it's about restoring confidence in the administration. If anyone had any sense, they would do it now to prove that there is nothing to hide. Without pre-judging the outcome, some of the things that have been said to me are wild, and I don't actually believe that these things could happen. That being said, PERCEPTION is everything and this is why I would call for the review. If it finds wrongdoing, then the people can be dealt with. If it clears the names of the people concerned and also clears the name of the administration, that would be an even better outcome. This isn't about tarring and feathering the current elected members, it's about identifying where things have gone wrong to prevent this poor decision making in future. The fact is that regardless of party politics, everybody is "tarred with the same brush". "they're all the same" people tell me. Once elected, even though I'd be a brand new councillor I would still be classed as "one of that lot" which is really unfair on me and any other new councillors. It is time for a line to be drawn under this mess and move on. The best way to do it is for a full independent review.

As for the cost of the study, I've only found one or two that have gone over 100k. In both of those cases, there was serious wrongdoing in one case at the local authority, and there was serious electoral fraud in the other. I believe that this study would be a lot more straight forward. Just going back to an earlier point about how it would be conducted, I believe the big planning decisions would be reviewed and a sample of things like extensions and change of use etc. The public could also ask for certain smaller cases to be included if they believed there to be wrongdoing i.e. the intervention of a councillor etc.

As for budgeting, I'd take 150k from one of the savings I have identified elsewhere to be kept aside so that if there was a cost overun it could be met comfortably. Like I say, I extremely doubt it would get anywhere near 100k.

The one problem I see is what if no wrong doing is found (how many Iraq enquiries have there been and there is still a massive distrust)?.  Having said that, I think it should be a matter of course that departments are periodically independently audited.

With Iraq, Bush (edit: Bush and Blair) said there were weapons of mass destruction and used it to justify going to war. The fact none were found is considered a bad thing, as it meant we went to war on spin. If no wrong doing was found at West Berkshire, that would be good all round. Local politics would no longer be tarnished as an independentt person would have cleared members and officers of acting improperly. Whether or not wrongdoing is found, the independent review would advise on how to prevent the mistakes of the past from happening again.

The problem here in West Berks is that everything is delegated to the officers and the members have taken the infantile position that nothing is wrong. Elected members have long lacked foresight... Now it seems they lack hindsight aswell. Not only do we need this review, we need an administration that leads from the front, unafraid to take the tough decisions that will sort out the area in which we live. Problems with roads, lack of affordable housing and and a complete lack of transparency need to be addressed, and the fact that the majority of these members have been involved in local politics for years gives me no faith whatsoever that they can turn things around. I hate using the "C" word as it is so overused... but if anything needs to "change", it's the working practices at West Berkshire and that can only happen with a change of administration.

Quoted from richard.garvie

The best way to do it is for a full independent review.

I'm betting a full review of tens of thousands of decisions would cost a lot more than £100k. If it goes a penny over will this be "unacceptable" and are you prepared to "man up" and resign?

Quoted from richard.garvie

it's the working practices at West Berkshire and that can only happen with a change of administration.

And what political persuasion would this new administration be? Lib Dem, Labour, Green?

Quoted from user23.3

I'm betting a full review of tens of thousands of decisions would cost a lot more than £100k. If it goes a penny over will this be "unacceptable" and are you prepared to "man up" and resign?

Interesting idea: people resigning over exceeding budgets!  

User23, you are just being infantile now. I've already said above that I would set aside some additional funds to cover any additional costs. You are jumping the gun, because you presume that I am infact going to be elected, which is obviously a choice for the electorate. Let me set out my position once again, as you seem to have problems taking it in.

If elected, I would call for a review into planning decisions made since 2004. The review would be fully costed up (as much as possible) and put to the full council to vote on it. IF approved by the full council, the review would go ahead and unless serious misconduct was uncovered, I can't see how there would be additional expense??? Are you trying to say they might find something??? I will not shy away from pushing for this review, as only a review will answer the questions posed by the electorate. If this is the only way to get the answers, I will be happy to be the flag bearer of the study, I am very proud of my personal integrity. I don't see why I would have to resign if the cost went up on the study because they had found evidence of wrongdoing in the past. The whole point is to PREVENT anything from happening in the future, whether that is poor decision making or wrongdoing.

As for the make up of the administration, that is for the electorate to decide. And picking up on Greenhams point, if members should resign over exceeding budgets, a numbr of the currnt administration would have been long gone!!! Why isn't Graham Jones on here to answer about his budget deficit, and why are you not calling for his resignation??? After all, if I go a penny over on a study aimed at restoring integrity at West Berks, you would expect me to resign. Mr Jones and his team are almost £2m overspent not including this month, do you expect them to resign??? Keith Chopping put that particular budget together (so we are led to believe), why hasn't he resigned??? The Libs overspent when they were in charge at West Berks, and most of them are still serving councillors. Why haven't they gone???

I'm not proposing 100k be spent on pot plants or studies that have already been carried out before (how many have been carried out on Faraday Road in the last five years alone?, I am asking for a review into the perception of the public that decisions have been wrongly made, that corruption is taking place at West Berks and that the members are intervening in planning decisions that don't go before the planning committee. This is what the electorate tell me when I'm canvassing, and if any other party had bothered to canvass my ward, they would hear the same things. So lets put this in perspective, I want to end the whispers about wrongdoing at West Berks, hopefully clearing peoples names in the process. If there is nothing to hide, why the objections??? What alternatives do you propose???

Without wishing to cast aspersions: I doubt user23.3 is entirely neutral on the subject of the council.  I doubt also, that I needed to tell you that!  

I'm starting to suspect he has a quite senior role!!! He is obviously scared about the prospect of  review!!!

I am asking for a review into the perception of the public that decisions have been wrongly made

In what way & on what grounds? Is this just a vocal minority? The Public, who have not seen the full application & do not really understand the planning process can hardly be a sound judge of whether a decision is right or wrong.

Quoted from 78

I am asking for a review into the perception of the public that decisions have been wrongly made

In what way & on what grounds? Is this just a vocal minority? The Public, who have not seen the full application & do not really understand the planning process can hardly be a sound judge of whether a decision is right or wrong.

If richard.garvie were to win a seat, then it could be perceived that he has a mandate from his constituents.  Saying that, unless he is a Tory or Lib Dem, he has no chance of making progress, such is the electoral habits of Newbury.

The young voters don't give a shit so long as there are places to get mashed and spend daddy's money and the elder ones just really care about the value of their house.  The rest don't have a large enough voting power to make any difference, or 'threaten' the orthodoxy.

richard.garvie is an exciting prospect, but I fear he will soon be beaten by the traditional voting pattern of Newbury's constituents.

That is the battle I face Greenham. Lovejoy: I can assure you that there are landowners, business leaders and constituents who are all telling me that either the council is corrupt, incompetent or both. I believe that this is why it is my duty to call for a review if I get elected. The people have spoken, and I intend to do what I can to give them what they want. I'm not sure anything untoward has actually happen, which is why the study is a win-win. We either get the all clear or we get rid of people who haven taken us for a ride.

Maybe existing members should get out on the doorsteps. They will be shocked to hear that the electorate are appalled with both parties and the main criticism is you only see them when there is an election.

Quoted from richard.garvie

...and the main criticism is you only see them when there is an election.

Too true, yet the 'idiots' vote them back in, time and again!  

Next year is the time to change that.

Quoted from richard.garvie

User23, you are just being infantile now. I've already said above that I would set aside some additional funds to cover any additional costs. You are jumping the gun, because you presume that I am infact going to be elected, which is obviously a choice for the electorate. Let me set out my position once again, as you seem to have problems taking it in.

It's infantile to question whether someone should resign and ask how over spending can be justified?

Quoted from richard.garvie

The overspend reported in the NWN this week has grown by 250k in one month. How can people justify one department being almost £2m over budget half way through the financial year?

Quoted from richard.garvie

The whole council appears to be out of touch, but Cllr Bale is now the public face of what is wrong at West Berks. Is it time for her to go???

So let me ask again, if you spend a penny over £100,000 will you resign? Yes or no?

Please just answer the question, stop being rude and don't get upset when someone judges you by the same standards as you judge others.

Quoted from richard.garvie

That is the battle I face Greenham. Lovejoy: I can assure you that there are landowners, business leaders and constituents who are all telling me that either the council is corrupt, incompetent or both. I believe that this is why it is my duty to call for a review if I get elected.

Oh good grief.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that there's any hint of actual corruption?  If so, presumably they will have informed Thames Valley Police: corruption is still illegal in this country. We can't wait for your bloody inquiry.

Re. incompetence.  Yes, of course WBC is sometimes incompetent.  But then, so is virtually every other organisation I ever deal with - from time to time. Vodafone have been massively incompetent in handling a complaint about my account.  British Airways recently delivered me to a different country than the one my luggage ended up in.  I could also bore you with my Virgin Media story and even my favourite retailer, Amazon, occasionally cocks things up.  

The list is endless.  I expect you're occasionally incompetent, I certainly am.  The idea that one witterer here can end incompetence is laughable: it's part of the human condition.  

Quoted from noobree

The list is endless.  I expect you're occasionally incompetent, I certainly am.  The idea that one witterer here can end incompetence is laughable: it's part of the human condition.

I would imagine that was the attitude MPs had with their expenses a few years back.

I see no reason why these things shouldn't get audited once and a while.  Lets say £100,000.00.  That's a tiny amount of the annual budget, or that was the argument when the shoe was on the other foot when there were complaints about what the council were spending money on and how they were managing their budgets in the past.

Quoted from noobree

Re. incompetence.  Yes, of course WBC is sometimes incompetent.  But then, so is virtually every other organisation I ever deal with - from time to time. Vodafone have been massively incompetent in handling a complaint about my account.  British Airways recently delivered me to a different country than the one my luggage ended up in.  I could also bore you with my Virgin Media story and even my favourite retailer, Amazon, occasionally cocks things up.

It's going to cost us one hundred thousand pounds or more to confirm this, if Richard gets elected.

If I overspent by a penny, no I wouldn't resign. Hardly comparable to overspending by £2m or lying repeatedly to the media and the public. I've already said that I wouldn't resign, as the decision to go ahead with a review would be taken by full council on the basis of a fully costed proposal. There would be a suitable cash reserve to facilitate any overspend, however I could only see that happening if wrongdoing was uncovered. I would never be able to railroad a study through, it would have to be a collective decision to proceed with it. All I can do is present the case on behalf of the people who vote.

Come on User23, what is the alternative??? All you do is try to distort the discussion... The fact is that you allegedly work for the council and try to throw off any criticism with silly retorts... WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE???

Quoted from user23.3

It's going to cost us one hundred thousand pounds or more to confirm this, if Richard gets elected.

Will it?  Where do you get your information from?

Quoted from richard.garvie

Come on User23, what is the alternative??? All you do is try to distort the discussion... The fact is that you allegedly work for the council and try to throw off any criticism with silly retorts... WHAT IS THERE TO HIDE???

Er...'turkeys' don't vote for Christmas!  

User23 is guessing on figures I provided... It is likely to cost anywhere between 35k and 100k... depending on what is uncovered... if there has been no wrongdoing then it's very straight forward and would be at the lower end of the scale, the more the cost would be a reflection of errors / wrongdoing discovered. There are massive decisions to be taken in the years to come, we can't continue to make these huge planning errors!!!

Quoted from richard.garvie

If I overspent by a penny, no I wouldn't resign. Hardly comparable to overspending by £2m or lying repeatedly to the media and the public. I've already said that I wouldn't resign, as the decision to go ahead with a review would be taken by full council on the basis of a fully costed proposal. There would be a suitable cash reserve to facilitate any overspend, however I could only see that happening if wrongdoing was uncovered. I would never be able to railroad a study through, it would have to be a collective decision to proceed with it. All I can do is present the case on behalf of the people who vote.

How much would you have to overspend by before you resigned?

It seems you think it's OK to overspend on a pointless enquiry but not looking the after the elderly.

Quoted from richard.garvie

User23 is guessing on figures I provided... It is likely to cost anywhere between 35k and 100k... depending on what is uncovered... if there has been no wrongdoing then it's very straight forward and would be at the lower end of the scale, the more the cost would be a reflection of errors / wrongdoing discovered. There are massive decisions to be taken in the years to come, we can't continue to make these huge planning errors!!!

If you're planning to review every planning decision it would cost the same whether you found "wrong doing" or not.

Quoted from user23.3

How much would you have to overspend by before you resigned?  It seems you think it's OK to overspend on a pointless enquiry but not looking the after the elderly.

He already answered that; an over-spend would more likely occur if discrepancies were discovered.  As for looking after the elderly, it seems the council don't mind spending money on exotic road coverings and cinemas than worrying too much about the elderly.  

Quoted from Greenham Common

Will it?  Where do you get your information from?

That's Richard's projected cost, between £35k and £100k, of course he'd have to budget for £100 in case it cost that much.

No idea how he arrived at these figures though.

Quoted from user23.3

It seems you think it's OK to overspend on a pointless enquiry but not looking the after the elderly.If you're planning to review every planning decision it would cost the same whether you found "wrong doing" or not.

He said this about that and other points you have campaigned.

Quoted from richard.garvie

September 22, 2010, 8:37am - As for the cost of the study, I've only found one or two that have gone over 100k. In both of those cases, there was serious wrongdoing in one case at the local authority, and there was serious electoral fraud in the other. I believe that this study would be a lot more straight forward. Just going back to an earlier point about how it would be conducted, I believe the big planning decisions would be reviewed and a sample of things like extensions and change of use etc. The public could also ask for certain smaller cases to be included if they believed there to be wrongdoing i.e. the intervention of a councillor etc.

As for budgeting, I'd take 150k from one of the savings I have identified elsewhere to be kept aside so that if there was a cost overun it could be met comfortably. Like I say, I extremely doubt it would get anywhere near 100k.

And you were making a point about sensationalising comments??? The only person guilty of that is you, as you try to distort this thread!!! An overspend on the study wouldn't be my fault, and as I've said on this thread, there would be ample resources to cover a overspend.

Put it this way User23 (whatever your real name is), if I had overspent to the level that the current administration do each year in certain departments, I would of gone long ago. If I was complicit in the terrible planning decisions that have been made over the past few years, I would of gone long ago. Why not ask Graham Jones why he hasn't corrected the annual overspend in the care budget??? Keith Chopping claims to have come up with the budget, yet says the reason for the overspend is that more people have used the services than "anticipated"??? How can that be acceptable??? It's not like we have a huge influx of OAP's moving to the area. Maybe you should ask them both to resign.

If I was Graham Jones, and a member of my exec team had repeatedly lied or distorted the truth like Hilary Cole or Patricia Bale, I would have demanded their resignations. The fact he hasn't shows that either a) he has no integrity or b) he was complicit in the spin and lies being told. You work at the council User23, WHAT IS IT???

And as for the review being pointless, you are entitled to your opinion but I am sure thousands of residents / business leaders in West Berkshire disagree with you.

I won't expect a reply to anything I ask you, I will wait for something else to be thrown at me. Just out of interest, did you find out if the serving of alcohol is actually legal in the members suite???

Quoted from Greenham Common

He said this about that and other points you have campaigned.

Oh great, so not only is he going to potentially waste hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money he's going to turn neighbour on neighbour as they all call for enquiries into each other's planning applications over the past seven years.

Quoted from richard.garvie

And you were making a point about sensationalising comments??? The only person guilty of that is you, as you try to distort this thread!!! An overspend on the study wouldn't be my fault, and as I've said on this thread, there would be ample resources to cover a overspend.

Great, you've already abdicated any responsibility for an overspend even before you've been elected.

Quoted from user23.3

How much would you have to overspend by before you resigned?

It seems you think it's OK to overspend on a pointless enquiry but not looking the after the elderly.If you're planning to review every planning decision it would cost the same whether you found "wrong doing" or not.

The review wouldn't look at "every" planning decision and I've repeatedly answered you. To even bring the elderly in to it when I've already made my thoughts clear on another thread is, quite frankly, a low blow. The council obviosly can't organise the proverbial in a brewery, as to be £2m overspent in six months is a complete disaster!!! Keith Chopping challenged the Libs to offer an alternative proposal, but of course they refused. They don't want to bail out the tories, as they have their own popularity issues due to what the parliamentary party has done. I rang Keith Chopping, and asked to put together an alternative budget, yet he rejected my offer as I was planning to stand against a Tory (even though it's two Libs in Thatcham West).

richard.garvie, be aware user23.3 is noted for thread disruption. Sadly, his posts start with an air of altruism, but it soon becomes evident that his intent is to disrupt any threads with anti WBC sentiment.  

Quoted from richard.garvie

The review wouldn't look at "every" planning decision and I've repeatedly answered you.

How is it going to be a full review if you don't look at every decision?

Why do you keep mentioning other people and telling me how bad they are, I'm asking you about what you'd do.

Quoted from Greenham Common

richard.garvie, be aware user23.3 is noted for thread disruption. Sadly, his posts start with an air of altruism, but it soon becomes evident that his intent is to disrupt any threads with anti WBC sentiment.  

I'm just asking him a few questions. If he can't answer them without throwing his toys out the pram perhaps politics isn't for him.

Quoted from user23.3

I'm just asking him a few questions. If he can't answer them without throwing his toys out the pram perhaps politics isn't for him.

As far as I can tell, he's answered well, your questions.

At the end of the day, he would only be able to do what he proposes if he has an electoral mandate, and as you are an advocate of democracy, what is wrong with that?

Hardly throwing my toys out of the pram :-p

But you are being very churlish, I have repeatedly clarified points and you go on to ask the same comments or distort it in a slightly different way. I have said that a review is the best way to restore some confidence in the local political areana. You have said it's pointless, but fail to offer an alternative. I say it will cost between 35k and 100k, most probably towards the lower end of that scale. But to cover the possibility of an overspend, money would be kept aside to for a "worst case scenario".

As for what other people do, you compared me to overspending by £2m and repeatedly lying to the press and public. Hardly comparable. If I was Hilary Cole, I would of said that we need to raise income from the Nature Discovery Centre and spoke to Thatcham Town Council and other parties about how this might happen (before anything was even mentioned to the press). I would then hold a public meeting to take their suggestions, if people really cared they would turn up and take part in a discussion. I will set out in my own campaign what my vision is for the Nature Discovery Centre, and there will be cost savings to West Berks.

I've already said how I would have prevented the overspend in the care budget. I will set out how I plan to erase the deficit very soon, but it may take a number of years to completely balance the budget from the place where it is now. At least there will be a plan and some clear vision on how to get back to a level footing. At the moment, we seem to be closing our eyes and hoping for the best.

As for Graham Jones, he didn't have a clue about the alterations to the allocation of affordable housing at the racecourse (he's the leader of the council) and he sat back and let Hilary Cole and Pamela Bale make fools of themselves (he is the leader of their party). How can West Berks have any clear direction when the leader is not leading???

Quoted from noobree

Is anyone seriously suggesting that there's any hint of actual corruption?

Nope, not a hint, not a jot, not one iota, and Griffins get all their local work, without having to tender, because of their track record. (if you take the library roof out of the equation).


Threep.

Quoted from Greenham Common

As far as I can tell, he's answered well, your questions.

At the end of the day, he would only be able to do what he proposes if he has an electoral mandate, and as you are an advocate of democracy, what is wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with it, nor is there anything wrong with questioning politicians such as Richard should they wish to post their views online.

just for the record User23, did you check the status of alcohol and the serving of in the members suite? Is there a licence in place??? You've gone very quiet on that point.

Quoted from user23.3

There's nothing wrong with it, nor is there anything wrong with questioning politicians such as Richard should they wish to post their views online.

Yes, but you are doing your best, it seems, to make it sound like that he's a shyster that is out to rip us off or waste our money.  Now he may well be, but if he gets elected with a manifesto pledge to investigate the planning process, surely that is fair, even if other areas suffer?  You before have claimed that the people speak through the ballot box.  To me this is it in action.  Not that I think anything will truly come of this, regrettably.

Although it would be good if the protagonists would reply to his accusations.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Yes, but you are doing your best, it seems, to make it sound like that he's a shyster that is out to rip us off or waste our money.

You've always said we should be able to question our local politicians online, now you've got your chance with Richard.

Quoted from user23.3

You've always said we should be able to question our local politicians online, now you've got your chance with Richard.

Question; yes, but seeking to seemingly undermine by any means is another matter.  I see little objectivity in your line of questions, although they are not without some merit.

Come on Greenham - you know as well as the rest of us that User is jst trying to cover his and his colleagues incompetence.


Richard - Why not offer to resign for the overspend if User23 does likewise for any overspend in his department!!

The fact is, a govermnet inspector would advise on how much a study would be expected to cost. I don't believe any deliberate wrongdoing has taken place, but as I've spent a lot of time working away since 2004, I'm probably not in the loop as much as the people I speak to. Therefore I'm not 100% certain nothing would be found, and as a result, further investigations would cost more money on the basis of something being found. So is it fair that if elected, and should the council vote for a review, that I should resign if wrongdoing is uncovered? That's the bit I don't get. Why, if it happened, should I be punished for the mistakes of the past???

If I was ever leader of the council, and any of my departments had a huge overspend each year like the care budget, I would have resigned. The fact is, nobody has tackled it head on. I'd be happy to look at the budget for that department (along with all of the data on people living within this area) and predict how much we would need to spend over future years. My big concern is that the council are simply guessing at a much lower figure of "likely" service users. With the economy the way itis, you'll find most who are eligible will use the services that they are entitled to. So lets be relistic, and plan for heavy useage over future years. Much better to have an underspend than an overspend.

How about this User 23, if I ever have a portfolio or lead the council, and throughout a four year term my portfolio or the council lurches from crisis to crisis like the present administration, I would resign out of humiliation. I'd be mortified if I was responsible for the state of the current administration, or if I was in the shoes of Keith Chopping, Hilary Cole or Pamela Bale, I would of gone too. No matter how much these people claim to be responsible for their portfolio's, and no matter how much Graham Jones claims to lead the council, we all know that the officers run the show.

I just don't know how you can defend them User23, unless you are either one of them or senior a officer.

Still no anwsers on whether the serving of alcohol in the members suite is legal??? You made such a big deal of the alcohol point in my initial posting, yet as soon as I answered you, you have refused to answer my questions about the legality???

For the record, I appreciate that however much we spend on a review will be funded by the taxpayer. That being said, you offer no alternative on how we can stop dead the issue of whisper campaigns and slurs on the reputation of the local authority. How else can we know one way or another if wrongdoing has happened, or if the working practices at West Berkshire need to be changed???