If anyone has any authority over the gritting, please take note...it's coming again on Tuesday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They know when the snow and ice come, they just don't grit everywhere on the main routes properly.

Quoted from Greenham Common

They know when the snow and ice come, they just don't grit everywhere on the main routes properly.

What makes you think that gritting is perfect? Surely there are weather conditions that are simply too severe for gritting to suffice.

Perhaps the forewarning of snow to come should ensure that everyone gets plenty of provisions in and, wherever possible, sorts out some work they can do at home.

Quoted from blackdog

What makes you think that gritting is perfect? Surely there are weather conditions that are simply too severe for gritting to suffice. Perhaps the forewarning of snow to come should ensure that everyone gets plenty of provisions in and, wherever possible, sorts out some work they can do at home.

Excuse me if I don't go and clear Burys Bank Road on my own!  We had a few inches of snow, hardly a Polar blizzard.  Like I said, the gritting round my area was rubbish.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Excuse me if I don't go and clear Burys Bank Road on my own!  We had a few inches of snow, hardly a Polar blizzard.  Like I said, the gritting round my area was rubbish.

Surely you have a simple option - don't drive - as you say it was not a polar blizzard, the snow will disappear pretty soon.

Bury's Bank Road is on a primary gritting route and hence should have been gritted as much as the A339, but gritting works best where the traffic is fairly heavy. I used to use Bury's Bank Road as a through route some years back, when it snowed I would use an alternative route. I suspect that many frequent users of that road do the same, so the gritting may well have little effect.

According to the Met Office it's not going to affect us.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_warnings.html?day=3

We are talking about Burys Bank Road Newbury?  Perhaps I'm too easily satisfied - but having seen much worse elsewhere in other Counties, didn't see any reason to complain!  Don't have a 4x4 - just a basic saloon.

Quoted from 40

We are talking about Burys Bank Road Newbury?  Perhaps I'm too easily satisfied - but having seen much worse elsewhere in other Counties, didn't see any reason to complain!  Don't have a 4x4 - just a basic saloon.

Same as me, but the gritting was still poor, if done at all.  Just because else where was worse, doesn't automatically mean here was good.  It wasn't, and that includes Pyle Hill as well.

Of course, it all depends on degree and what your expectations are. Never having been a socialist, don't expect the Council to do absolutely everything for me, so in my view, what was done was more than adequate.  

Quoted from 40

Of course, it all depends on degree and what your expectations are. Never having been a socialist, don't expect the Council to do absolutely everything for me, so in my view, what was done was more than adequate.  

Who said anything about a council doing absolutely everything?

As for expectation, there have been other years when the gritting has been fine (I'm talking about evidence that it has been thoroughly done), so I base it on that.  Mind you, there have been other years when they have screwed it up as well.

Socialist or not, they take Council Tax readily enough.

Wonder how long it took you lot of tossers to get home last week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quoted from 40

Never having been a socialist, don't expect the Council to do absolutely everything for me

Just out of interest, and given your non-socialist viewpoint, what DO you expect the Council to do for you?



Threep.

Quoted from dodgy

Wonder how long it took you lot of tossers to get home last week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Not being a tosser there's no need for me to answer. I would ask you the same question but it doesn't look like you get out much.  

Quoted from Threepwood

Just out of interest, and given your non-socialist viewpoint, what DO you expect the Council to do for you?

I know your question wasn't for me but I have a comment to make.  That could be the problem, people expecting the council to do something for them. I don't expect anything other than to do what I can for them, as well as handing over my hard earned spondulicks.

I appreciate that, but he said he didn't want them to do "absolutely everything", by extension therefore, he does expect SOMETHING(S) from them, I merely wondered what a self confessed non-socialist does expect from them.

Threep.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I know your question wasn't for me but I have a comment to make.

I think it was.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

That could be the problem, people expecting the council to do something for them.

I don't see that as being a particularly outrageous philosophy.  Bare in mind, within context of the argument, I wasn't particularly affected by the snow.  I work local.  I therefore, would like the Council to do some things for my fellow Newburians that were affected by the weather.  Things that I believe are within their remit. In my view, some of the gritting on the primary routes was not done well enough.  There might be a legitimate reason, but I am going by past experience.  Despite boasting good stock, I saw little evidence that some routes were gritted/salted well enough.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I don't expect anything other than to do what I can for them, as well as handing over my hard earned spondulicks.

What are you talking about?

Quoted from Threepwood

Just out of interest, and given your non-socialist viewpoint, what DO you expect the Council to do for you?



Threep.

These days, now most things are centrally managed I can't see what the Council does have left to do - save bins and roads. Good subject for a new thread.

Quoted from Greenham Common

I think it was.

It was anyone's question who cared to answer but Threepwood aimed it at Aliunde.

Quoted from Greenham Common

I don't see that as being a particularly outrageous philosophy.

It wasn't meant to be outrageous.

Quoted from Greenham Common

What are you talking about?

Even though we religiously pay our council tax, I don't expect anything in return for myself.  Our council tax covers refuse collection, highways, street cleaning, leisure centres, park & recreation grounds, planning & building control, environmental health, education, social services, libraries, licensing, policing and fire service. We pay other taxes to the government which must filter back down to West Berks and there is little we get benefit from directly.

We work at clearing our own part of the road and pavement in bad weather. We work at separating our recycling only to see it slung altogether. On the last collection they bashed the recycling box against the back of the lorry to try and move the bits stuck to the bottom. This is not usually done but I happened to be watching, it's usually left in the bottom. The box was frozen so it cracked on impact and was slung in with the rest of the rubbish. That means one of us will have to work at getting a replacement. We often have to litter pick the road following our refuse collection. Our street lights now go off at midnight, a trial that will last forever, we put in a light so the family and anyone passing can safely see their way and it's not so welcoming for criminals.

We have to do as we are told otherwise the council will be after us, parking is one example. There are other examples but I won't bore you any further. My view remains that the council get more out of me than I get out of them.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Not being a tosser there's no need for me to answer. I would ask you the same question but it doesn't look like you get out much.  

Scromby de fantasia you plonka!
Seems like nobody on this site gets out much!

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

It was anyone's question who cared to answer but Threepwood aimed it at Aliunde.

You are right and I take that back.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

It wasn't meant to be outrageous.

The implication was that you felt it wrong to expect anything from the Council.  I think I see from your subsequent passage, however, that you are approaching this from a different angle.  That is, you don't expect a good service, rather than feel you should expect to get a good one.

Quoted from 40

I can't see what the Council does have left to do - save bins and roads.

So that's all you expect your Council to do for you? Bins and Roads?


Threep.

Quoted from 40

Of course, it all depends on degree and what your expectations are. Never having been a socialist, don't expect the Council to do absolutely everything for me, so in my view, what was done was more than adequate.  

Socialism's about people putting something back into society too, not just the state doing things for the people.

Quoted from Threepwood

So that's all you expect your Council to do for you? Bins and Roads?

I dare say it is, what should we expect? What should we do if we don't get what we expect which is often the case? The council always know best, don't you know?

Well, as he claims he only expects his bins and roads to be done, then, (provided they ARE done) he must be happy with the council. Because he's getting the only things he expects. That must make him a happy bunny. (although elsewhere he seems to be scratching around for other ideas)


Threep

Quoted from user23.3

Socialism's about people putting something back into society too, not just the state doing things for the people.

Surely my sponsoring the state with taxation is putting something back in.  Every hundred pounds I have to pay in tax takes me many hours of work to earn.  And with in that charge, I am paying for something things I have little direct need for, but I am happy for that to be the case, if it is for the benefit of the community as a whole.

So to summarise within the context of the thread.  I expect the council to do a good job keeping the primary routes as clear as reasonably possible.  Meanwhile, I'll keep my immediate area as clear as possible.

Now, I think the gritting/salting in some areas was OK, other areas it was not.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Surely my sponsoring the state with taxation is putting something back in.

If you don't benefit from much you aren't putting something back in are you? You are working hard to contribute to something you have no control over, get very little from but benefits others. This is what is expected and understood by most. It is generally accepted but becomes an issue when, on occasions when something affects you, you cannot get what you feel to be part of the basic service.

Quoted from user23.3

Socialism's about people putting something back into society too, not just the state doing things for the people.

Not how it works in practice as George Orwell noticed in Animal Farm.

Quoted from 40

Not how it works in practice as George Orwell noticed in Animal Farm.

Animal Farm is about Communism, not Socialism.

Quoted from Threepwood

Well, as he claims he only expects his bins and roads to be done, then, (provided they ARE done) he must be happy with the council. Because he's getting the only things he expects. That must make him a happy bunny. (although elsewhere he seems to be scratching around for other ideas)


Threep

Actually I have a very low expectation of what the Council can do - over what they are obliged to provide as demanded by central Government.  Take education; provided under the terms of the various education acts and delivered by the full time staff and school governers. In my experience, the LEA simply served to hinder rather than help.  Police, down to Thames Valley Police Authority.  Planning - SEEDA and the residual Berkshire County quangos have far more influence than any local councillor. Perhaps public open spaces, but history demonstrates that in many cases these used to be provided by local benefactors; no reason to suspect that couldn't happen again.  Appreciate you at least know what its like to be scratching round for ideas.

Quoted from user23.3

Animal Farm is about Communism, not Socialism.

The original Socialism was just a watered down version of Communism, now it's a watered down version of Conservatism.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

If you don't benefit from much you aren't putting something back in are you?

You are going to have to explain that one, I'm lost.

Quoted from user23.3

Animal Farm is about Communism, not Socialism.

Indeed, it was a polemic against what Communism had become, by a Socialist.

Threep.

Quoted from Greenham Common

You are going to have to explain that one, I'm lost.

Rephrased: If you don't take anything out, you don't have anything to put back in.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Rephrased: If you don't take anything out, you don't have anything to put back in.

Sounds back to front to me. I would say "If you don't put anything in you can't take it out". At least thats what my bank keeps telling me!

Quoted from Threepwood

Indeed, it was a polemic against what Communism had become, by a Socialist.

Threep.

Massive difference isn't there....

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Rephrased: If you don't take anything out, you don't have anything to put back in.

Sorry, but I think you are talking cobblers.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Rephrased: If you don't take anything out, you don't have anything to put back in.

Sorry, but I think you are talking cobblers.

Quoted from Bartholomew

Sounds back to front to me. I would say "If you don't put anything in you can't take it out". At least thats what my bank keeps telling me!

Quoted from Greenham Common

Sorry, but I think you are talking cobblers.

I know what I was talking about and both of you did really didn't you? I wouldn't liken West Berks to a bank. Plenty of people don't put anything into it but take more than their fair share out.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I know what I was talking about and both of you did really didn't you? I wouldn't liken West Berks to a bank. Plenty of people don't put anything into it but take more than their fair share out.

You're right, I've no idea what you were talking about or what you were trying to say.

Sounds even more like a bank to me if people are taking out more than their fair share!

Quoted from 40

Massive difference isn't there....

In the mind of Orwell, certainly.


Threep.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I know what I was talking about and both of you did really didn't you? I wouldn't liken West Berks to a bank. Plenty of people don't put anything into it but take more than their fair share out.

I don't wish to be rude, but your posts have been confused and I don't know what you a trying to say.  You seem to modify your stance as you go.

Quoted from Bartholomew

I would say "If you don't put anything in you can't take it out". At least thats what my bank keeps telling me!

Quoted from Bartholomew

Sounds even more like a bank to me if people are taking out more than their fair share!

So now we are all confused.

If you don't benefit from much you aren't putting something back in are you?

Much you benefit from putting something you are back aren't you if in you don't.

Quoted from brian

Much you benefit from putting something you are back aren't you if in you don't.

Ah, now I understand.  

Quoted from brian

If you don't benefit from much you aren't putting something back in are you?

Much you benefit from putting something you are back aren't you if in you don't.

Welcome aboard Yoda. (always two there are...)



Threep.

A good job it is I'm not of the sensitive type. Otherwise believe I would think you all were taking the pi$$.

Everyone seems to be missin' the point, don't you think?

Quoted from dodgy

Everyone seems to be missin' the point, don't you think?

It's Monday and according to you the end is nigh.

Where's this snow then? What a waste of money gritting the roads today would have been.

Quoted from user23.3

Where's this snow then? What a waste of money gritting the roads today would have been.

1  As you have already pointed out, the snow wasn't coming here.
2  It was icy on the roads last night, so gritting/salting would not necessarily have been a waste of money.

Quoted from user23.3

Where's this snow then? What a waste of money gritting the roads today would have been.

I took out a life assurance polisy 20 years ago, yet I'm still alive. What a waste of money that was.

Quoted from user23.3

Where's this snow then? What a waste of money gritting the roads today would have been.

I took out a life assurance polisy 20 years ago, yet I'm still alive. What a waste of money that was.

Mony wood hav bean beter spent on a speeling cours at the colige

Quoted from dodgy

Mony wood hav bean beter spent on a speeling cours at the colige

Or perhaps I should have opted for a typing course? Unfortunately, as you have demonstrated, they don't offer one in witty banter.

Quoted from 26

Or perhaps I should have opted for a typing course? Unfortunately, as you have demonstrated, they don't offer one in witty banter.

I get the impression that this is his best material too.

Quoted from user23.3

Where's this snow then? What a waste of money gritting the roads today would have been.

It was snowing here in Swindon 30 mins ago.  It's always difficult to forecast exactly when/where snow will hit.

Quoted from massifheed

I get the impression that this is his best material too.

Yea, unfortunatley my script writer is in Lapland for whatever reason!!

Quoted from noobree

It was snowing here in Swindon 30 mins ago.  It's always difficult to forecast exactly when/where snow will hit.

And therefore difficult to know whether grit should be laid or not. One thing's for sure, if they'd gritted on your instructions they'd have wasted a whole lot of our money.

Quoted from user23.3

And therefore difficult to know whether grit should be laid or not. One thing's for sure, if they'd gritted on your instructions they'd have wasted a whole lot of our money.

As has already been pointed out, it was freezing that night/morning, so it might not have been.

Quoted from Greenham Common

As has already been pointed out, it was freezing that night/morning, so it might not have been.

If they gritted everywhere every time it got a little bit frosty they'd soon be bankrupt.

Quoted from user23.3

If they gritted everywhere every time it got a little bit frosty they'd soon be bankrupt.

But we know that isn't the case and not what was suggested.  Someone gave an early warning of snow.  Presumably, as it got closer to the expected snow, the 'danger' receded.

One thing I have noticed, is that I cannot remember reading anyone from the gritters claiming that the weather the other Monday was sudden and unexpected.

Quoted from user23.3

If they gritted everywhere every time it got a little bit frosty they'd soon be bankrupt.

Without the grit WBC have managed a £1m overspend on useless managers. Thankfully 20 are going.

Quoted from 26

Without the grit WBC have managed a £1m overspend on useless managers. Thankfully 20 are going.

I thought some of the £1m alleged overspend (it seems t go up each time it's mentioned) was on caring for the elderly?

Would you like to see some of them go too?

Quoted from user23.3

I thought some of the £1m alleged overspend (it seems t go up each time it's mentioned) was on caring for the elderly?

Would you like to see some of them go too?

Of course overspend generally means poor budgeting and who is responsible for that? ..ummm senior managers for input to councillors for approval!

Oh dear, this seems to have turned into another one of "those" threads.

The familiar whine along the lines of "that's bad management spending so much looking after the elderly, it wouldn't happen in the private sector, heads should roll".

Quoted from user23.3

Oh dear, this seems to have turned into another one of "those" threads.

The familiar whine along the lines of "that's bad management spending so much looking after the elderly, it wouldn't happen in the private sector, heads should roll".

Admitting defeat in your usual manner then  

Quoted from user23.3

I thought some of the £1m alleged overspend (it seems t go up each time it's mentioned) was on caring for the elderly?

Is not the sacking of 20 managers a pretty clear indication of where the overspend is? Get rid of more deadwood and we could spend even more on caring for the elderly.

Quoted from Sue

Is not the sacking of 20 managers a pretty clear indication of where the overspend is? Get rid of more deadwood and we could spend even more on caring for the elderly.

No, it doesn't indicate an overspend just that they're making cuts. If they cut provision for the elderly would you say that was a pretty clear indication of where the overspend was.

I don't see what any of this has to do with snow, so let's get back on topic. The snow didn't materialise and if the original posters request was carried out they'd have wasted a load of money on gritting the roads.

Quoted from user23.3

I don't see what any of this has to do with snow, so let's get back on topic. The snow didn't materialise and if the original posters request was carried out they'd have wasted a load of money on gritting the roads.

Keep posting this crap will not get you any supporters.  The OP just said that they should be aware that snow was forecast.  Not that the gritters should go out.  Even if they did, it might not have been a waste because it was freezing that night.

Quoted from Greenham Common

Keep posting this crap will not get you any supporters.  The OP just said that they should be aware that snow was forecast.  Not that the gritters should go out.  Even if they did, it might not have been a waste because it was freezing that night.

No it doesn't. It says it's coming, not that it's forecast to come and not that it might come. One must assume that they think it IS going to snow they think the council should be out gritting because of this.

If the council had followed this false alarm they'd have wasted our money and no doubt people would be moaning about it.

Quoted from user23.3

No it doesn't. It says it's coming, not that it's forecast to come and not that it might come. One must assume that they think it IS going to snow they think the council should be out gritting because of this.  If the council had followed this false alarm they'd have wasted our money and no doubt people would be moaning about it.

IT WAS FREEZING THAT NIGHT, I UNDERSTAND THAT FREEZING CONDITIONS IS A LEGITIMATE REASON TO GO SALTING/GRITTING. I for one wouldn't criticise an authority that responded to legitimate advice, but I would if they ignored them.  I would imagine dodgy's 'advice' was based on a forecast and not reliant on personal calculations.

Quoted from user23.3

No it doesn't. It says it's coming, not that it's forecast to come and not that it might come. One must assume that they think it IS going to snow they think the council should be out gritting because of this.

If the council had followed this false alarm they'd have wasted our money and no doubt people would be moaning about it.

I would suggest you are making the most of this to bolster up your support in favour of West Berks. A forecast is a prediction. A prediction can have a negative or positive result. A weather forecast is based on quantitative data about the current state of the atmosphere, it's often correct and wrong nearly as often. The storm of 1987 comes to mind. A game of luck sometimes and whoever instructs the gritters must have had their fingers crossed that night.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I would suggest you are making the most of this to bolster up your support in favour of West Berks. A forecast is a prediction. A prediction can have a negative or positive result. A weather forecast is based on quantitative data about the current state of the atmosphere, it's often correct and wrong nearly as often. The storm of 1987 comes to mind. A game of luck sometimes and whoever instructs the gritters must have had their fingers crossed that night.

What's all this about "support", this isn't a football match you know.

Black and white of it is the original poster was wrong and would have cost us all money if they were running things, which shows just how difficult the job of gritting (or not gritting) is. This will no doubt have little effect on the whiners.

It seems pointless debating this any more as it didn't snow on the day and question and no matter how much anyone tries to twist the original intent of the post around this fact will not change.

Quoted from user23.3

What's all this about "support", this isn't a football match you know.  Black and white of it is the original poster was wrong and would have cost us all money if they were running things, which shows just how difficult the job of gritting (or not gritting) is. This will no doubt have little effect on the whiners.  It seems pointless debating this any more as it didn't snow on the day and question and no matter how much anyone tries to twist the original intent of the post around this fact will not change.

Like I wrote, and you repeatedly ignore; it was freezing that night and I would expect a gritting authority to respond to a legitimate advice. Presumably the council did, i.e. it didn't go gritting because the forecast changed and snow never come.  If the advice was to go gritting and they did, but the snow didn't materialise, then I would imagine fewer people would have complained than if the reverse been true.

Quoted from user23.3

What's all this about "support", this isn't a football match you know.

Black and white of it is the original poster was wrong and would have cost us all money if they were running things, which shows just how difficult the job of gritting (or not gritting) is. This will no doubt have little effect on the whiners.

It seems pointless debating this any more as it didn't snow on the day and question and no matter how much anyone tries to twist the original intent of the post around this fact will not change.

Sometimes a football match is easier to predict..try it-and whats your prediction for 2010? Get yourself off to Glastonbury next time and dose yourself up!

Quoted from Greenham Common

Like I wrote, and you repeatedly ignore; it was freezing that night and I would expect a gritting authority to respond to a legitimate advice. Presumably the council did, i.e. it didn't go gritting because the forecast changed and snow never come.  If the advice was to go gritting and they did, but the snow didn't materialise, then I would imagine fewer people would have complained than if the reverse been true.

I imagine more people would complain when the council overspent on gritting the roads, or ran out having used too much when it wasn't needed.

Your point about it being icy is a red herring and an attempt to divert the debate, the original post refers to snow and there was none, case closed.

Quoted from user23.3

What's all this about "support", this isn't a football match you know.

Black and white of it is the original poster was wrong and would have cost us all money if they were running things, which shows just how difficult the job of gritting (or not gritting) is. This will no doubt have little effect on the whiners.

It seems pointless debating this any more as it didn't snow on the day and question and no matter how much anyone tries to twist the original intent of the post around this fact will not change.

It's not a jock strap either (although maybe a nearer comparison  )

Yes it is a boring debate but as long as you know where you stand that's all that matters.

Quoted from user23.3

I imagine more people would complain when the council overspent on gritting the roads, or ran out having used too much when it wasn't needed.  Your point about it being icy is a red herring and an attempt to divert the debate, the original post refers to snow and there was none, case closed.

Only in your failed bid to discredit the OP.

No-one could rightly complain if the council followed legitimate sources of advice.  If the council has stocks that follow advice of the people that are in a position to know best, that is good enough.  Should the council go against professional advice and ran out then that would be a reason to complain.

It being freezing on the night before a predicted snow fall is not a red herring, as salting/gritting would not have been a total waste.

Quoted from user23.3

I imagine more people would complain when the council overspent on gritting the roads, or ran out having used too much when it wasn't needed.

Your point about it being icy is a red herring and an attempt to divert the debate, the original post refers to snow and there was none, case closed.

Are you saying that WBC don't grit when it is icy only when it is going to snow then???