West Berkshire Council will be resubmitting its bid for redevelopment of the Museum in Newbury following notification by the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) that the initial application for a grant of £999,995 has not been approved.

In determining the first-round bid, the HLF stated that the regional committee was very supportive of the Council’s plans for conserving the historic buildings and refurbishing the Museum, but that more evidence needed to be provided on how the redevelopment would help people to learn about their own and other people’s heritage. Therefore HLF has recommended that a revised Round One application is submitted when more work has been done on the learning and participation aspects of the project.

The Council had hoped that a bid for funding to engage architects, engineers and museum designers to prepare plans for a £2 million refurbishment would be approved.

The redevelopment proposals included restoration of the historic Cloth Hall and Corn Stores at the Wharf. It was also intended to create a new entrance and access hub, replacing a 20th century link building.

Pamela Bale, West Berkshire's Executive Councillor for Culture and Leisure said, "Securing a lottery grant was seen as the Council’s best opportunity for raising funds to provide new displays and improve access. However,following this decision, we look forward to submitting a revised  application to the HLF  that offers greater opportunities for learning and participation at the museum in line with their criteria."

Notes

1.     The Cloth Hall was first built as a workhouse in 1626; it is a Grade I listed building.

2.     The Corn Stores (also known as the Granary) was built around 1725 to serve the developing canal trade; it’s a Grade II* listed building.

3.     The Museum has been at the Wharf since first opening in the Cloth Hall in 1904.

4.     The Museum is currently closed to the public to allow staff to undertake essential collection care work.

5.     The Museum will re-open to the public on 1st April 2010 with a special exhibition on the archaeology of West Berkshire.

6.     The Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) is the largest dedicated funder of the UK’s heritage, with around £180 million a year to invest in new projects.

No mention of the fact that most of the museum will remain closed until they finish the rebuild - or admit defeat on that and spend a few grand getting the safety issues resolved.

Obviously the HLF didn't make it clear what their expectations were from the applicants, unless the prospectus wasn't read carefully enough. Perhaps dear Pamela should ask some searching questions so that when the LibDems ask their questions, as they will of course, she may have some of the answers. Time will tell.

If the museum is partly closed, and will be for quite some time, would it not make sense to find a temporary home?  How popular is the museum, anyone know average visitor numbers?

Perhaps they should sell off the museum.

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps they should sell off the museum.

I see, so what would you suggest would be an appropriate replacement use of the building?

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I see, so what would you suggest would be an appropriate replacement use of the building?

Whatever the buyer wanted to do with them, along as they didn't paint them purple.

Quoted from user23.3

Whatever the buyer wanted to do with them, along as they didn't paint them purple.

That must mean you couldn't care less?

Quoted from user23.3

Whatever the buyer wanted to do with them, along as they didn't paint them purple.

Seeing as you came up with the idea, can't you be more specific so we can debate the possibility.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Seeing as you came up with the idea, can't you be more specific so we can debate the possibility

Do you usually have to specify what the next owner does with a building when you sell it?

Providing they stick to the listed building regulations does it matter?

Quoted from user23.3

Do you usually have to specify what the next owner does with a building when you sell it?

I don't know. I just thought you may have liked to 'debate' the possibilities. Sorry I was mistaken.

Can't see anyone wanting to take on a building like that, can you? Lovely as it is, it would cost a fortune to refurbish. Would make a lovely restaurant <ducks>

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

Seeing as you came up with the idea, can't you be more specific so we can debate the possibility

He could always ask his wife. She runs a bit of it

I can't see selling it is an option, I can't see any private concern would be interested.

Quoted from 133

Can't see anyone wanting to take on a building like that, can you? Lovely as it is, it would cost a fortune to refurbish. Would make a lovely restaurant <ducks>

Prezo did it with the old, old library,

Quoted from user23.3

Prezo did it with the old, old library

Yes, in the days when money was no object. Apart from that I imagine the library was in a bit better nick than the museum

Quoted from user23.3

Prezo did it with the old, old library,

That building is likely not to have been condemned.

Quoted from 133

Yes, in the days when money was no object. Apart from that I imagine the library was in a bit better nick than the museum

Document House did it with a derelict building.

Quoted from Meddler

He could always ask his wife. She runs a bit of it

Does that mean they are both WBC employees?

Quoted from user23.3

Document House did it with a derelict building.

Derelict doesn't necessarily mean it was condemned.

Quoted from user23.3

Document House did it with a derelict building.

A derelict building it may have been, it still didn't have the historic value of a former Cloth Hall did it?

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

A derelict building it may have been, it still didn't have the historic value of a former Cloth Hall did it?

Where can one find out the relative historic values of document houses and cloth halls?

Perhaps you've invented the worst Top Trumps ever?

Quoted from user23.3

Perhaps they should sell off the museum.

When I read this I assumed you meant the Museum as an entity, but others read it as the cloth hall and perhaps some of the granary.
There would be no market I suspect for the Cloth Hall as it is Grade 1 listed which means that you can't even break wind in there without informing English heritage.
The Document House was slightly different in that even though it was listed by the time the owners had ripped it apart it was a bit late. By the way, I think they did quite a good job with it.

I'm sure though that it would make a nice little town museum with exhibit activities that the kids could operate and of course, Shaw House would make a lovely West Berks museum especially if it majored on the civil war. Stand by your muskets.

Quoted from user23.3

Where can one find out the relative historic values of document houses and cloth halls?

Perhaps you've invented the worst Top Trumps ever?

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are insinuating.  My understanding was the Cloth Hall and adjoining granary were the most historic buildings that Newbury has, no?

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are insinuating.  My understanding was the Cloth Hall and adjoining granary were the most historic buildings that Newbury has, no?

I would have thought Shaw House would have a "more historic" rating in Newbury's Old Buildings Top Trumps.

Quoted from user23.3

I would have thought Shaw House would have a "more historic" rating in Newbury's Old Buildings Top Trumps.

It is certainly bigger and because shedloads of money has been spent on it, it must now have a better rating than it did but the cloth hall out numbers Shaw House at least ten to one on picture postcards of Newbury.

But, if you want historic in Newbury, then the winner is probably the Manor House in Argyle Road.

Quoted from user23.3

I would have thought Shaw House would have a "more historic" rating in Newbury's Old Buildings Top Trumps.

I'm sorry but I thought we were talking about the museum and your suggestion for selling the most historic building in the town centre off. I must be mistaken.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I'm sorry but I thought we were talking about the museum and your suggestion for selling the most historic building in the town centre off. I must be mistaken.

We moved on from there to talk about the most historic buildings in Newbury

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are insinuating.  My understanding was the Cloth Hall and adjoining granary were the most historic buildings that Newbury has, no?

Quoted from brian

But, if you want historic in Newbury, then the winner is probably the Manor House in Argyle Road.

I don't think I know where that is, got a picture?

Quoted from user23.3

We moved on from there to talk about the most historic buildings in Newbury

You may have done for whatever reason, I was staying on topic.

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

You may have done for whatever reason, I was staying on topic.

You're saying you didn't post this about the most historic building in Newbury?

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are insinuating.  My understanding was the Cloth Hall and adjoining granary were the most historic buildings that Newbury has, no?

I and Brian then put forward our suggestions for most historic building in Newbury. I don't see what the problem is.

Quoted from user23.3

We moved on from there to talk about the most historic buildings in NewburyI don't think I know where that is, got a picture?

And you being a Newburian and all!!

Here's a poor picture of it...



You should take a walk up there, if your interested, the road has several very interesting buildings...

Quoted from Meddler

He could always ask his wife. She runs a bit of it

User has a wife?

Quoted from blackdog

User has a wife?

Perhaps we should avoid getting too personal.  I suspect most of us would rather remain anonymous.

Quoted from user23.3

You're saying you didn't post this about the most historic building in Newbury?I and Brian then put forward our suggestions for most historic building in Newbury. I don't see what the problem is.

I did, indeed, post that, I didn't put enough detail in it, I should have also written Town Centre. I thought, as that was what we had been debating, it would have been clear. Another mistake I made, sorry to confuse you.

Ignoring the bickering...

The concept of 'most historic building in Newbury' is an interesting one - not least for the consideration that is needed to define historic.  I would not say that the oldest is necessarily the most historic.

Nor would I say Shaw House was in Newbury - it still isn't, though I suppose Newbury will spread its boundaries that way at some point in the future.

Contenders within Newbury must include the so-called 'Bartholomew Manor' in Argyle Road - a manor is much the same way as the City Mayor was a mayor. Its certainly older that most buildings in the town.  The Litten Chapel is probably the only older. However, there is not a huge amount of history attached to the Manor (or Litten Cottage as it was known for a while). It was leased by Jack of Newbury and his son. but its most important role could have been as the retirement home for Dr Essex Winter.  Without it we would not have the Essex Winter almshouses, even the older building would probably have been demolished by now.

The Cloth Hall has a more interesting history - starting from the Kendrick bequest that paid for it and following through its many roles to its restoration and subsequent use as a museum.

The granary/corn stores - which I always think of as misnamed, they were stores for anything that came and went along the canal, not just grain (in fact they were a bit small to hold much grain).  As such they have an interest, and certainly have visual appeal, but no great events in history can be attached to them.

Other places to consider:  

• St Nicolas' church, built mainly by Jack of Newbury (Newbury's only major historical figure).

• The Bear, Speenhamland; the place Lord Falkland's body was taken to after the 1st Battle of Newbury prior to being taken to his home in Oxfordshire.  Now Gurkha Chef and what was Threshers. Probably the only building left with associations with that battle, arguably the most important historical event that took place in Newbury. Not that I am convinced that the existing buildings were there in 1643.

• The George & Pelican - not the new one, the original - now York House/Thames Court and the buildings to the east up to Jackson-Stops. One of the most famous coaching inns in the country and the place where the infamous Speenhamland System was devised in 1795.  Easily the most important event that took place in Newbury if you discount the 1643 & 1644 battles.

• St Bartholomew's Hospital - or the remaining remnant, King John's Court. A good history back to 1215 even though the buildings are late C17th and much refurbished

• Jack of Newbury' House (Monsoon), the remaining segment of Jack's house and premises. Arguably the first factory in England and a monument to Newbury period as one of the most improtant cloth making towns in the country.

This may be asking too much but would you be able to post pictures of each place you listed?

What was the Speenhamland System?

Quoted from Dig of the Stump

What was the Speenhamland System?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speenhamland_system

The site of The George and Pelican



What the area looks like now from the front



St Nicolas Church

Thank you Greenham Common.

The display in kennet shopping has models operated by a push button....

Quoted from Gumpo

Dancing bears were popular with my little daughter as well, she hogged the button for a good five minutes.  

It is interesting that youngsters love to push a button or turn a handle to make something operate and our museum could take a leaf from the KS  bears which might make their displays more interesting for the younger people. It could perhaps benefit from some mechanical or illuminated models that would both entertain and instruct. The grant application might be a bit more forthcoming with a structured learning program aided by this style of display.

Quoted from brian

It is interesting that youngsters love to push a button or turn a handle to make something operate and our museum could take a leaf from the KS  bears which might make their displays more interesting for the younger people. It could perhaps benefit from some mechanical or illuminated models that would both entertain and instruct. The grant application might be a bit more forthcoming with a structured learning program aided by this style of display.

Interactive displays are almost obligatory in museums these days - however, the least reliable ones are those requiring electronics. I would be amazed if such items were not included in the refurbishment proposals.

Not having seen the grant application it is impossible to see where it failed - from the press release it seems that more work is needed on the learning and participation aspects of the project. This could mean more involvement from local schools, or from local history societies or getting out and doing sessions in old folks homes. However, I would have expected the consultant they hired to develop this part of the bid to have included all these things. A committment by WBC to hire someone to run this aspect of the museum might convince them (says he suspecting that no such committment is in the existing bid - given the steady reduction of museum staffing over the years).